Religion and pleasure

[kılıç_mehmet]

You know, I see a lot of big words masquerading as wisdom, and yet, on closer inspection, I find them to be more worthless that religious dogma.

In fact, the tune you are singing isn't original at all. It hits all the common notes of "sacrificing the earthly pleasure", "greater joy", "something bigger than oneself", "self-sacrifice", "higher cause" etc. The only thing that changes is which altar you'd have us sacrifice ourselves on - the altar of god or the altar of society. Well, I can achieve the so-called "greater joy" without sacrificing my earthly pleasures.

I'm no old man to give you wisdom, I'm here to speak my own words, and explain my views.
If you find them worthless, don't reply.

To start with, I did not assert the idea that my views were original. As a matter of fact, people who are applauded in our society today, are people who have sacrificed much, for a greater cause.
Not otherwise.

Here's how the thing called happiness works. You can be happy in any one or more of the following ways:
1. Pleasure
2. Engagement
3. Relationships
4. Meaning
5. Accomplishments.

Amongst these 5, I have little to show. I have no relationship, I have no significant accomplishments which allow me to rise above the regular person, though pleasures of flesh, I can get whenever I want, may it be through wine, or whores.

A meaning though, yes, my life has a meaning. This meaning, however is something that is beyond me. This is what makes it tower over whatever I hope to "accomplish" in life. All my accomplishments, I will dedicate to that meaning alone, which will make accomplishments count for something beyond me and perhaps my close circle of relatives and associates. For no matter how much you accomplish, there will be someon who has accomplished more than you, if you think it through in a personal way. Though if these accomplishments of yours are dedicated to a cause, they will count more than any amount of accomplishments of a single person.

Obviously, the person who hits the high notes on all five is going to be the happiest.

Perhaps. But you ought to know that one generally takes away the other.
Just for an example: I have a relationship. I go and have an affair for my pleasure. She gets to know. I've sacrificed one thing, for another. This is how it goes. You cannot have all, friend.

And here's where you and the other theists go horribly wrong. You think that without god or society giving it to us, our life won't have a meaning.

What sort of a meaning do you have on your own? You're but a single number, if you'd die now, the world wouldn't go under, so what sort of a meaning do you think you possess?

That only meaning to be found in life is by "sacrificing oneself in service of god or society".

If your sacrifice will have a meaning beyond you, I'd say it's a fair deal. Achilles took that deal in the Illiad.

That only accomplishments that count are those made while serving this so-called greater good.

And what sort of accomplishment is there in your pokemon card-collection?

And since atheists and individualists don't do that, all they have left to make them happy are the baser, earthly pleasures.

Well, I'm just hoping that you're going to prove me otherwise.

Yes, I am hellbent on enjoying my life to the fullest and I happen to know that without a meaningful purpose to accomplish, I won't be able to enjoy life to fullest.

Okay...

That doesn't mean that that purpose has to come from outside myself.

Except in the case for a child, seriously no. What sort of purpose beyond the purpose you described above do you hope to make up for yourself?

And you know what I've found - an average Joe who defines and lives for his own purpose, however mundane it may be - is much happier than someone who's had their purpose dictated to them.

Well, there isn't really much of a purpose you can set for your life though. The only thing the average joe without a greater purpose desires in life is a house, a car, perhaps a family if you're into it, children, and perhaps grandchildren. Or if you don't like these, you can choose many of the alternative lifestyles that are available today. It's nothing out of the ordinary, these too, are outlined.

And speaking of average Joes, if your heritage is the source of your pride, then your life must have been devoid of any accomplishments.

Well, I'm 24 years old, I really have not much to show, my friend. And as I said, whatever I have accomplished, I did for a greater purpose. I was not alone, of course, people have helped me, I have helped them, and we tried to do something. We failed, but we've not given up.
And indeed, my heritage is the source of my pride, my friend. Hopefully I will be a source of pride to those that come after me.

Frankly, the pride I take in my capacity to cook good food is much greater than any pride I could hold for my ancestors who may have built a city.

Well, I can't know. Hard to impress the next generations with your cooking skills when you're dead. That's how much your cookings skills matter, my friend. I guess taking pride in your cooking is not a bad thing, but considering themselves above your ancestors who've built cities, fought and died in wars, and have created for you the environment in which you've practiced and developed your cooking skills is nothing but being disrespectful.
A man always must honour and respect his ancestors.