"Homosexuality is a choice" and its paradox

[FallentoReason]

Why are they being inconsistent? Well, they should ask themselves this: "have I ever had sexual feelings for the same gender?" If the answer is "no", then that means two things:

(1) oddly, homosexuality is a choice, yet *they* themselves are excluded from apparently being able to make said choice.

(2) if (1) is true, then it means for as long as they've known, their orientation was out of their control if they can't seem to ever have a sexual attraction for their own gender.

Okay, we understand this to be true, we know that this choice shit is kind of irrational, but I think you're missing the sheer power of theistic magical thinking.

I think the source of the logical disconnect here is that, to a theist this actually has nothing to do with sex at all, since most religions tend to treat any sexual activity the same way. No, to the people broaching this choice argument, the choice they're thinking of isn't heterosexuality vs homosexuality, it's piety vs sin. To them, the reason they haven't had any attractions to the same gender is because they are saved, they aren't afflicted with sin, they are strong enough to deny lust to the point that the devil won't even try to give them homo cooties.

Homosexuality being a choice, to them, has nothing to do with logic at all, it's simply a byproduct of their theology; homosexuality must be a choice because it's a sin, and all sins need to be, at root, choices, because they can't square the idea of god creating people with sinful natures.

It's the reason why, on the other hand, you've got the "love the sinner, hate the sin" folks, whose beef is mainly with homosexual sex, and have no issue with celibate gays; it's just a particularly bad variant of the larger sin of sexual pleasure, to them.

It's a good point you raise. I guess the OP can be adapted to accommodate for that, although it won't be a "universal" argument anymore like I wanted it to be:

(a) the person in question is a heterosexual and not a believer.

I fall into this category. I personally can't say that I've ever had feelings for another man as a recent ex-Christian (where sin can now freely roam in my life). Therefore, it seems like their theology doesn't apply to my own life and I can dismiss it as being false for me *personally*. Of course, the theist can't enter my mind and confirm that I'm telling the truth, hence why I can't universally refute their claim anymore.

What I can gather from this alternative is that "sin" is looking like a suss concept.

(b) the person in question is a heterosexual and a believer.

[insert doctrine] means that they are free from the nasty temptation of wanting to slip their ding dong into another man's bum. What I find troubling about this is that I can perfectly say that I *also* don't have that temptation, yet I outright deny their doctrine. From my p.o.v, it seems like whatever they claim to have which means they don't get tempted isn't actually *necessary* for not being tempted in that way. Therefore, I can personally come to the conclusion that their claim is, at most, dubious.

This alternative tells me that the thing driving away sinful thoughts is an unnecessary thing to have.

© the person in question is a homosexual and not a believer.

This is allegedly the case where the individual is choosing to sin since they are/aren't [insert doctrinal reason]. Sure, that's what their religion dictates, but I share half the qualities of this individual, yet I can't wilfully bring myself to sin in this way.

Again, from my p.o.v, it seems like what they claim just isn't adding up.

(d) the person in question is a homosexual and a believer.

I can't say I've met anyone like this before. If they exist though, the believer will most likely play their No True Scotsman card. I think for the purposes of this thread though, we can ignore this particular individual.


From the above, you can see that I have plenty of reasons to deny any sort of doctrinal reasons that account for homosexuality being a choice. Even if I tried, I can't sincerely sin in the way that a homosexual would, and that just doesn't make sense given that we're both sinners, generally speaking.