RE: Question for Christians/Muslims etc.
January 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2010 at 5:05 pm by Minimalist.)
(January 10, 2010 at 2:03 am)tackattack Wrote: So
1. Pliny the Younger found superstitious people willing to deny christ for other God's and worshiped him like a god.
2.Julius Africanus (through) Eusebius referenced Jesus but it's hearsay and we're assuming he forged some references.
3.Josephus and Tacitus that have the "stench of forgery" but reference Jesus.
I'll discard the others. How does this not support Jesus' existance alongside the bible?
Let's take these in order. 1. Pliny could have traveled from Bithynia to Ephesos and found all sorts of people worshiping at the Temple of Artemis. Does that make Artemis real? Or Zeus? Or Apollo? What you are engaging in here is called "special pleading." It basically goes like this. "Our god is real but all those others are false." You reject 99.9999 percent of all the gods invented by the fertile mind of men as idols. Yet, you expect everyone to bow down to your particular fiction? Yeah, very convincing. There are lots of versions of this routine. Some xtians whine, "why would anyone die for a lie" and then sit there and blissfully ignore the Islamic suicide bombers who blow themselves up for 72 virgins.
2. Eusebius was famously quoted as approving lying to advance the faith. He is already implicated in the forgery of the TF and the only word we have for the existence of Julius Africanus' works is Eusebius. You would object to someone citing The DaVinci Code as evidence of jesus being married and rightly so because the Davinci Code is a novel. But we do know the provenance of the DaVinci Code. We have no provenance for Julius Africanus. As I said, xtian scribes, who dutifully copied lots of stuff which they thought backed their position, did not bother with this one? Odd.
3. So, you don't care if evidence is forged as long as it tells you what you want to hear? Glad you aren't on jury duty. Ask yourself this. Why, if there were legitimate historical references to your godboy, did they feel compelled to forge some? Recall that the ancients were not laboring under the difficulty which we now face. In the 4th century, the libraries had not yet been burned by xtian thugs. Alexandria, Rome, Athens, Ephesos and Antioch were all centers of great learning. Yet in all of that, no one could find a reference to your so-called god? No wonder they were embarrassed enough to try to do something about it.
Quote:As far as the above, religion was power and control. Lot's of people abused it and still do. Would you rather assume they made up entire sections of the bible from scratch or just rearranged the ones that profitted them most. The Bible scrolls existed before the cannonization and people already knew the stories, so they couldn't have changed much.
You need to start reading books that do not start "IN THE BEGINNING." Then you might find out just how close to reality your question is. Start with Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus and find out how much tampering was going on with your 'holy' books. Yes. Entire passages were inserted.
From there, proceed to Ehrman's Jesus Interrupted. When you're finished we'll have your Atheist Membership Card waiting.