Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 11, 2026, 7:08 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable?
#7
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable?
(August 24, 2013 at 7:51 am)discipulus Wrote:
(August 23, 2013 at 3:58 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: The Free-will Defense to the problem of evil can, I believe, be simply summarized as saying that the explanation for a benevolent, all-powerful and perfect god allowing for evil/suffering to exist in his creation is that [libertarian] free will is something so good that keeping it intact is necessary for said deity, even though it allows for agents to possibly do evil. There are some problems with this for theists I think, that I'd like to see them answer.


Firstly, I'd like to know how libertarian free will is such a high good. To clarify, proponents of this apologetic heavily imply this since the whole purported reason for evil existing is to allow for the preservation of free will. Anyhow, there doesn't seem - on the face of it - to be anything about libertarian free will that "makes" it good in the way that other things can be said to be (making people happy, preventing harm, etc.). The only response that seems to make come close to making sense is to say that it safeguards moral blameworthyness/praise. But that would seem to clash with the orthodox belief that all praise and glory is to be to God. Or rather, all it seems to say is that it is so that God can get himself praised by his creations.

Another thing is that under libertarian free will, you can be inclined without being necessitated. And yet according to a literal reading of Genesis (which seems a widespread view) Adam and Eve were so easily swayed by the serpent into disobeying God. If God had wanted us to truly not sin, could he not simply have inclined us not to sin or disobey him, or made the first 2 humans be so inclined (but not necessitated) to listen to him over all others? If the answer is no, then that's tantamount to determinism (i.e all humans would have eaten the forbidden fruit), which contradicts the above.
I think these needs defending.


Lastly, - and I think this is the biggest issue - the libertarian concept of free will doesn't have a tenable or coherent formulation (currently). This is I think reflected in the fact that under 14% of philosophers subscribe to it, versus say compatibilusm's ~60%. Even Robert Kane, who's thought to have given a clever whack at working it out, isn't convinced of his attempt and sustained heavy critique by the likes of Dennett.


So if there isn't a coherent formulation of libertarian free will, then theists cannot use the Free will defense, yes? Sorry for the length. o3o

I do not personally hold that our will is free in the libertarian sense.

I however, see no logical contradiction in the propositions: "God exists" and "evil exists".

But that god cannot be omnipotent and loving. One or the other, but not both.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable? - by Tonus - August 24, 2013 at 8:55 am
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable? - by Chas - August 24, 2013 at 9:03 am
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable? - by genkaus - August 25, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable? - by Chas - August 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Free Will Defense - Isn't it Unusable? - by Aldarion - November 13, 2013 at 1:21 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will ShinyCrystals 268 78708 June 23, 2025 at 10:23 pm
Last Post: awty
  What is the religious defense of this Jesus Christ quote? Disagreeable 61 16400 August 26, 2024 at 12:01 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Free Will Theodicy FlatAssembler 64 14935 July 13, 2023 at 2:15 pm
Last Post: Bucky Ball
  Isn’t pantheism the same thing as atheism? Ferrocyanide 177 42325 January 1, 2022 at 2:36 am
Last Post: Ferrocyanide
  On the lunacy of free will slartibartfast 152 31385 October 20, 2021 at 12:50 am
Last Post: Oldandeasilyconfused
  Free gift. Chad32 32 10212 May 8, 2018 at 3:26 pm
Last Post: Astreja
  Being Catholic isn't an ethnic thing. Joods 0 1300 March 12, 2018 at 8:36 am
Last Post: Joods
  Free Will is a sign if God's inescapable weakness AtheistNexus 55 17332 November 30, 2017 at 5:47 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Isn't it funny... pabsta 189 92818 August 21, 2017 at 12:11 am
Last Post: Astonished
  In Defense of God. The Grand Nudger 55 21747 June 27, 2017 at 2:28 am
Last Post: Pat Mustard



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)