(August 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm)discipulus Wrote: If an atheist argues that evil is evidence that the God of the Bible does not exist, then yes, it is relevant what the atheist thinks evil is. Afterall, they are the one presenting the argument.
The conspicuous problem with an atheistic/naturalistic view of reality, is that "evil" is simply a word used to describe certain actions or behaviors that are not conducive to the survival of a species. It all ultimately boils down to that one issue, for that is what nature is concerned with. But if every person that commits evil, is themselves, a by-product of evolution, then nature is the one responsible for producing entities that act in a way that we have been programmed to believe is not conducive to the survival of a species.
This was the line of reason used in the Leopold and Loeb trial by Clarence Darrow, for in his closing speech he remarks as to why the boys killed Bobby Franks:
"Why did they kill little Bobby Franks? Not for money, not for spite; not for hate. They killed him as they might kill a spider or a fly, for the experience. They killed him because they were made that way. Because somewhere in the infinite processes that go to the making up of the boy or the man something slipped...."
and...
"This terrible crime was inherent in his organism, and it came from some ancestor..."
Closing Argument
The State of Illinois v. Nathan Leopold & Richard Loeb
Delivered by Clarence Darrow
Chicago, Illinois, August 22, 1924
Darrow admitted the guilt of his clients but argued that forces beyond their control influenced their actions. Law professor Phillip Johnson describes Darrow's argument this way: "Nature made them do it, evolution made them do it, Nietzsche made them do it. So they should not be sentenced to death for it." Darrow convinced the judge to spare his clients. Leopold and Loeb received life in prison.
The following year, Clarence Darrow played a leading role in another "trial of the century." He defended John Scopes for teaching evolution in violation of a Tennessee law.
So we see from the above that if we take the naturalistic/Darwinistic view of evil as simply that which is descriptive of an act which is not advantageous to the survival of a species which a person commits as a result of being born with a certain chemical and physiological makeup that makes them more prone to certain acts, then the people that committed certain acts in the name of the God they worshipped were no different than the two boys who killed young Bobby Franks. They were simply acting in accordance with their particular physiological makeup given to them by nature. Their belief in God was a belief that encouraged and fostered their survival as a species which was itself the by-product of socio-biological pressures, and they acting in accordance with their pre-determined beliefs were simply them dancing to their DNA.
But I am willing to wager, if I were a betting man, that some of the very atheists here will hesitate to agree with this conclusion. For inherent in the general understanding of an act being evil is the idea of moral culpability....i.e. that one could have chosen not to do a certain act, but did it anyway and at the expense of another person's welfare which would make the act an evil act or a wrong thing or bad thing to do.
But since for an act to be evil, the one committing the act must be morally culpable, then how can we really call anything evil if we are not morally culpable?
Zip up. Your ignorance is showing.
This seems to be a common tactic with you - build an elaborate, ignorant strawman of the atheistic position and then allow the debate to get sidetracked.
Well, all your presumptions about the atheistic position are bogus. I don't regard evil as something "not conducive to survival of species". I don't regard every human as just "a by-product of evolution". I do not hold nature responsible for any "evil". It is not the naturalistic position and it is not my position.
For the purpose of this discussion, "evil" is assumed to mean "intentional infliction of pain and suffering". Now stop being a pussy and address the issue.
