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Trinity
#49
RE: Trinity
(August 30, 2013 at 12:48 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus said in Luke 16:17 "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
OK but below it says:
(August 30, 2013 at 12:48 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus said in Matthew 12:6 "..8) For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Jesus said in Mark 2:27 And he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28) So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."
Jesus said in John 7:23 If on the Sabbath day a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with Me because on the Sabbath I made a whole man's body well?.."
These are verses in which Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath spoke about the law and the Sabbath.
These verses add exceptions to the law, which is definitely adding more that a dot or "tittle". He is simple saying that he is authorized to make these changes as he is god. The old testament says otherwise.

(August 30, 2013 at 12:48 am)Godschild Wrote: Deut. 13:1-4, you missed on this big time too. These verses speak of a person who prophesies and the prophecy comes true yet says, let's follow a false god in not a true prophet.
The verses mean that anyone who does not follow the Jewish law cannot be a true prophet regardless of the accuracy of their predictions. Ergo, jesus violated jewish law and thus cannot be a prophet.

Furthermore:
Christians foremost believe the messiah came to save us personally from damnation. To back this up, they quote Isaiah 53, often called the
“suffering servant” passage:
Controversial Text
...He [the servant] was despised, and forsaken of man, a man of pains, knowing disease...Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried;...Smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was crushed because of our sins; The chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed...But the Eternal chose to crush him by disease, that, if he made himself an offering for guilt, He might see offspring and have long life (JPS).

Christians believe this is a description of the messiah and it perfectly fits the life and death of Jesus.

How Jews Respond to this Claim

Here are the problems:

The name “Jesus” does not appear in this text, so applying this to Jesus is a mere supposition.

The words “messiah,” “House of David” or “Son of Jesse” do not appear in this text, so claiming this describes the messiah is also a mere supposition. No one really knows who the servant is because the text does not tell us. He certainly doesn’t have to be either Jesus or the messiah.

In fact, the servant doesn’t have to be an individual. In the chapters leading up to this passage, Isaiah repeatedly identifies the whole Jewish people as God’s ‘servant’ (41:8-9; 44: 1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3), so it is likely the servant isn’t even a person, only a symbol for Jews.

The servant is repeatedly described as stricken with disease (vs. 3-4; 10). There is no report of Jesus having any diseases, either literally or metaphorically.

The servant will not die until he has children (v. 10). We have no report that Jesus ever had children.

The servant will live a long life because of his self-sacrifice (v. 10); Jesus died young, probably at 33

http://dracontius.net/ragwad/challlenges.pdf
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Messages In This Thread
Trinity - by old man - August 25, 2013 at 5:18 am
RE: Trinity - by Zen Badger - August 25, 2013 at 6:31 am
RE: Trinity - by shadowninjax - August 25, 2013 at 6:52 am
RE: Trinity - by freedomfromforum - August 25, 2013 at 7:59 am
RE: Trinity - by pocaracas - August 25, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 25, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - August 28, 2013 at 1:15 am
RE: Trinity - by Angrboda - August 28, 2013 at 3:50 am
RE: Trinity - by pocaracas - August 28, 2013 at 4:34 am
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 28, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 1, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 1, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 1, 2013 at 12:52 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 1, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 5, 2013 at 3:36 pm
RE: Trinity - by Cinjin - September 5, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm
RE: Trinity - by Angrboda - September 1, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 28, 2013 at 6:36 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 28, 2013 at 3:02 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 28, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 29, 2013 at 7:22 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 29, 2013 at 12:36 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 30, 2013 at 12:48 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 30, 2013 at 7:51 am
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 31, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 30, 2013 at 3:02 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 30, 2013 at 2:44 pm
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - August 28, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 28, 2013 at 4:11 pm
RE: Trinity - by Captain Colostomy - August 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 28, 2013 at 11:41 pm
RE: Trinity - by Captain Colostomy - August 29, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 29, 2013 at 2:53 am
RE: Trinity - by Chas - August 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - August 31, 2013 at 1:53 am
RE: Trinity - by Chas - August 31, 2013 at 9:47 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 25, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - August 25, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: Trinity - by Napoléon - August 25, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 25, 2013 at 10:54 am
RE: Trinity - by Neo-Scholastic - August 25, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: Trinity - by freedomfromforum - August 25, 2013 at 2:20 pm
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Trinity - by LastPoet - August 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - August 25, 2013 at 5:36 pm
RE: Trinity - by Neo-Scholastic - August 25, 2013 at 6:38 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 25, 2013 at 7:04 pm
RE: Trinity - by Angrboda - August 25, 2013 at 7:36 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 25, 2013 at 8:11 pm
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - August 25, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: Trinity - by FifthElement - August 26, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Trinity - by Cinjin - August 26, 2013 at 1:16 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 26, 2013 at 3:07 am
RE: Trinity - by Fruity - August 26, 2013 at 4:58 am
RE: Trinity - by Captain Colostomy - August 28, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: Trinity - by Zen Badger - August 28, 2013 at 8:28 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - August 29, 2013 at 1:48 am
RE: Trinity - by Tonus - August 29, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 30, 2013 at 1:45 am
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - August 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm
RE: Trinity - by Tonus - August 30, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 30, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - August 30, 2013 at 2:59 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 30, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Trinity - by FifthElement - August 31, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - August 31, 2013 at 2:13 am
RE: Trinity - by Cyberman - August 31, 2013 at 9:56 pm
RE: Trinity - by Tonus - September 1, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 1, 2013 at 12:55 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 1, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 1, 2013 at 5:53 pm
RE: Trinity - by Cinjin - September 2, 2013 at 6:26 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 1, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 1, 2013 at 6:24 pm
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - September 5, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: Trinity - by Thackerie - September 15, 2013 at 3:34 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 5, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 5, 2013 at 7:10 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 6, 2013 at 1:10 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 7, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 7, 2013 at 6:55 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 8, 2013 at 5:28 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - September 8, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 9, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 9, 2013 at 4:14 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 11, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 9, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - September 9, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Trinity - by Captain Colostomy - September 9, 2013 at 4:14 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 11, 2013 at 10:31 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 11, 2013 at 11:53 am
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 13, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: Trinity - by Silver - September 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 13, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 14, 2013 at 8:32 am
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 15, 2013 at 2:36 am
RE: Trinity - by Tonus - September 15, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - September 15, 2013 at 3:39 pm
RE: Trinity - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 17, 2013 at 11:17 pm
RE: Trinity - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2013 at 7:48 am
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm
RE: Trinity - by Beta Ray Bill - September 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 17, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Trinity - by Chas - September 17, 2013 at 3:54 pm
RE: Trinity - by Silver - September 17, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Trinity - by Silver - September 17, 2013 at 3:49 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 11, 2013 at 12:54 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 13, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Trinity - by Beta Ray Bill - September 13, 2013 at 4:11 pm
RE: Trinity - by Silver - September 13, 2013 at 4:17 pm
RE: Trinity - by Godschild - September 14, 2013 at 1:51 am
RE: Trinity - by Angrboda - September 14, 2013 at 2:25 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 14, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 14, 2013 at 10:41 am
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 14, 2013 at 12:26 pm
RE: Trinity - by Angrboda - September 15, 2013 at 8:40 am
RE: Trinity - by Cyberman - September 16, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 17, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Trinity - by old man - September 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: Trinity - by Faith No More - September 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm
RE: Trinity - by Cyberman - September 19, 2013 at 4:52 pm
RE: Trinity - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Trinity - by Cyberman - September 18, 2013 at 10:25 am
RE: Trinity - by Brakeman - September 18, 2013 at 12:45 pm
RE: Trinity - by Cyberman - September 18, 2013 at 12:54 pm
RE: Trinity - by Bad Writer - September 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: Trinity - by LastPoet - September 19, 2013 at 3:26 pm

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