Why we can't "change" our (or others) minds

[Faith No More]

I don't know this but it sure seems like people are tossing opinions as fact around here. I am saying that I can neither prove nor disprove.

Do you have some data that points towards these sub-con processes you refer to?

Until someone can say for certain that something else is in control of our reasoning functions I would say I decide for myself what is fact and not. I can even choose to be totally ignorant and say a fact is so when others can clearly prove it is not. Sure that is totally retarded but I have that choice and watch others around me do that every single day in public and at work.

I can't prove anything more than anyone else can I am not trying to run over anyone's opinion and hope that my statements for myself personally don't come across as me saying it is universally so. Who can really say. We know so little of the sub-con mind that I would venture no one can actually answer that.

Maybe we don't control what we find to be fact but I can say for a fact that I would never agree that the world is flat like the flat earth society members will even though they will say that their flat world is a "fact". I can use data and even go to space to prove it is not. In that way I cannot prove what I have said I guess I just want to in some way feel like I control what I think and until I see real proof otherwise I am going with that.

I was just wondering how one would go about determining that a subconscious process wasn't involved at any moment. It's not as if it's something you can feel.

And I think your belief that we are in control of what we determine are facts or not doesn't take into account how the brain constructs its model of reality and the depths it will go to maintain its current model. Here is a good list of defense mechanisms, many of which are done subconsciously(or unconsciously, whichever you prefer). The first one, denial, is the one I think applies here, and here is a blurb from that link...

In the long run, however, denial can prevent you from incorporating unpleasant information about yourself and your life and have potentially destructive consequences.

This is the kind of subconscious process that controls whether or not we can consciously acknowledge something as a fact. A person that has grown up indoctrinated into creationism may feel that they are rejecting evolution based upon a conscious and rational decision, but in fact, their brain subconsciously refuses to accept new information that would bring their current worldview crashing down. It's the anxiety and fear that would result from that worldview crashing down that the brain wants to avoid and it does so without the person truly being aware of it.

That's not to say we can't override our defense mechanisms. Quite the contrary, but I'm presenting that as an example that what we accept as fact isn't entirely determined by conscious processes.