RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 22, 2010 at 10:20 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2010 at 12:11 pm by rjh4 is back.)
(January 21, 2010 at 6:28 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Your god cures no diseases, heals no amputees, fights no viruses, does not supply the power to your home, did not invent a combustion engine, did not give us radio, telephone or wifi, did not improve crop, does not help the Haitians, did not invent the internet, provides no navigation, food or fuel, does not give us insight in the CO2-problem, did not tell us what fuels the sun, did not provide solar cells, and some zillion other things that science helped accomplish.
The score between reason and god fabulation now is a zillion to nill.
God created the people who do/did all that and gave them the abilities to do those things. Given that I do not see how man is superior to God.
(January 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm)theVOID Wrote: Don't just assert it, show us how and why you know that your presupposition gets you anywhere.
It explains how the universe came to be.
It explains our consciousness and natural ability to comprehend the rest of creation.
It explains our ability to communicate.
It explains our appreciation of music and beauty.
It explains why there is evil in the world, i.e., as a result or consequence of sin.
It explains our generally innate morality (how I just know certain things would be wrong even if the law said otherwise...and I am quite sure most, if not all, people know the same thing as some point in their lives)
It explains how others can do things that are morally wrong and not feel anything (because of continued sin in their lives they kill their conscience so they do not think they do anything wrong).
It explains or innate consciousness that we are not perfect (I know I know I am not perfect, and I do not know any that would say they are.)
It explains why science can even work at all (uniformity of nature...God upholds the universe in generally law like fashion)
It explains why laws of logic are generally agreed upon and even when they are not they end up providing for the basis of disagreement.
It explains people's desire to be autonomous from God (sin).
It explains why people struggle to do what they know is the right thing to do.
It explains how people can sacrifice for others knowing it will have drastic consequences for themselves.
It explains why people need/desire hope.
It explains the hope people can have.
It explains how we can be right before God.
I think my presuppositions get me pretty far!!!
(January 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm)theVOID Wrote: Unless you can demonstrate valid logical reasoning for holding a positive belief in the existence of God your personal need for authority is worthless.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that there isn't a highest authority in your own worldview. I would guess it is you.
(January 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm)theVOID Wrote: I asked you to point them out, since you claim everyone has them by default.
I don't call Anything completely impossible, therefore I exclude nothing by default. My positions are based a weighing of evidence where it is available and withholding judgement where none is available.
Ok...let me ask you some questions to see if we can get to some first principles in your thinking.
You say you are a materialist (in your profile)...how would you define this?
You rely on the laws of logic...do you think there is an explanation/proof for the laws of logic? If so, what is it?
(January 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm)theVOID Wrote: You can go two ways from here, you can either recognise that the current standard being used to substantiate your claims is logically insufficient and move on to a higher standard of evidence in an attempt to prove the viability of your claims over the other contradictory ones, or you can admit that you don't much care that you cannot rationally verify your position.
Those are not the only two options. How about you just answer the questions above to see if we can pinpoint your presuppositions and see if they get you anywhere.
(January 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm)theVOID Wrote: You don't think it's accurate yet you reject the scientific method the minuet it produces answers that contradict your world view.
As far as I know, science doesn't contradict the Bible except where it begins to extrapolate into the past where everyone is interpreting things based on some framework. (I know of nothing in operational science that contradicts the Bible.) So, yes, I have no problem rejecting what scientists say about the past when it contradicts the Word of God.
