Outlawing ALL unproven medical practices,

[Pippy]

So you never get a ride from someone, never take a train or public transit, never flown in a plane? All of which are substantially more dangerous than vaccines. Don't be a smart ass and pretend you've lived an entire life not using any of these means of travel. We all know you're lying.

I don't own a car. I take the bus sometimes, every now and again I get offered a ride. Usually I walk. I am not lying, I am trying to point out how silly an argument it is that riding in a car is more dangerous than Vaccine Medicine. Apples and oranges.

This amounts to "vaccines are dangerous because I don't know anything about them."

No it does not. I know enough about Vaccines, the human body, and especially the track records of the companies and global entities (WHO) involved. I am against the Swine-Flu vaccine program because it was a clear sign of fear mongering, of using fear to sell millions upon millions of questionably safe, and wholly unnecessary new medicines by companies that have proven how far they take the bottom line

he h1n1 vaccine is a perfect example of anti-vac fear mongering.

Was it? I thought that the disease seemed pretty weak (other than in the Ukraine) and that for the most part the medicine was poorly tested, and not available in time. I was not offered the shot until a month after they were available. If there had been wide ranging H1N1 in my city, I would have gotten it. The disease did not act as badly as some had feared, and we are concerned that the same thing that happened with Monsanto and the FDA is happening with Big Pharma and the WHO. The fear mongering is on the pro-vac side, the anti-vac has been here for decades.

The only thing the h1n1 vaccines proved is vaccine fear mongering is alive and well and we need to find a better way to produce vaccines that makes it readily available to public in the right quantities.

I think it proved it as well, but that we need better international entities (the WHO, other UN groups, our Governments) to not let the greedy and sociopathic Chemical Corps be in charge of marketing new diseases. the overall point is that the swine flu shot, with all of it;s concerns was unnecessary. The thing that makes bad medicine worse is when it is taken without need.

Just because you have problems with the way the vaccine was distributed does not make it unsafe.

That is beyond disingenuous. Jut because you love the way the vaccine was distributed doesn't make it effective either sweet heart.

Regardless, vaccines don't cause down syndrome.

Thank you for reminding me that Down Syndrome is genetic, I did in fact know that. I used the example of down syndrome to reference debilitating mental and physical disorders (like on the autism spectrum) knowing that DS itself cannot be caused by Vaccine Medicine. It was kind of an exasperated tongue-in-cheek jab, but missed it's mark sorely. I apologize that it made you think I was stupid and did not understand human developmental disabilities.

Large epidemiological studies have been done that do not support the hypothesis that vaccines cause auto-immune diseases, asthma, diabetes, MS, or autism.

I fear that the majority of those studies may be untrue. There is a long line of Pharma Corps spending a ton of money flubbing tests and studies (since the new name of the game is not inventing new medicines, but inventing new uses for old medicines (like gardasil) more money is spent on false "testing" and "independent" studies payed for by the corp than on R+D. I would only offer that there is also a wealth of information showing that something is causing a rise in cases of asthma diabetes, MS, and especially things on the autism spectrum. I wouldn't count someone with Aspergers as being fully autistic, but a disorder is a disorder. I have heard that Autism used to be around 1 in 600,000 Then it was 1 in 6,000, then 1 in 600. Now I have heard that in America children born with something on the autism spectrum are about 1 in 200. I know you guys love you wiki quotes, so please scurry off and find the "right" numbers. The point stands is that this is an endemic. Until we find out what is causing a giant growth in auto-immune disorders, we need to look carefully at all medicine and other modern influences.

In fact, as a response to the public misconception that autism is caused by the thimerosal in vaccines, it was removed and studies show that there is absolutely no change in incidents of autism.

I'm pretty sure that Thimerosal was not removed. Go check the label of the ingrediants of the Swine Flu shot. Baxters Pandrexa had Thimerosal in it. After using it as an adjuvant and shelf life increaser, they did stop putting it in the vials as much. But it is certainly still there. And the argument wasn't with heavy metals in the shot we give to children (which has it's own merit). The argument was with adjuvanted vaccines in general, that a side effect of poking the immune system with dirt (adjuvants) might create auto-immune issues. The problem was the entirety of the medicine and it's uses, not just putting heavy metal residue in our blood stream.

Or maybe the smart people understand the benefits of herd immunity, you know given that we're smart and all.

Well you smart herd people go take your sketchy medicine. I will have faith in the machine I live in (my body) and it's fantastic and fascinating ability to heal and protect itself. I promise not to breathe on your chemically altered children if it makes you feel safer.

No one is taking children away so once again you're showing your complete ignorance on the subject.

I am not showing my ignorance, but speculating. If I have an obligation to you (in your head) to tkae medicine that Wikipedia says is safe, but I have strong doubts, where does that end? If you feel the need to force me to comply with your vaccine regiment (isn't it 22 shots before a child is 1 year old?) beacuse my not doing so endangers your and your children's lives (also in your head) based on my failure to hold up my end of "herd immunity", where does that end? It ends with people like yourself forcing people like me and my children to get medicine we don't want to get because (in your head) it serves the greater good. So I am speculating into the future that your line of argument ends with taking peoples children away against their will... It's not that I'm stupid, it's that I can tell the future.

In fact the debate speaks to the general sexism that still exists today. "Don't give woman a license to have sex whenever they want, they need to be good Christian ladies!"

So you think that the whole 'don't be too promiscuous, have self-respect' line is beside the point. You know, kids will be kids, having sex all the time with multiple partners. Let's not try to teach our children to act right, let's just give them dangerous drugs so that they may be better able to lead a dangerous lifestyle. This is not sexist, unless your the Cosmopolitan kind of Feminist that thinks a woman's promiscuity and sexual activities are her femininity. I am a strong old-school feminist, and the battle was fought for equality and freedom, not for the right for young women to objectify themselves.

And your proof that Gardasil causes sterilization, please? Don't have any? Oh, too bad.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gardasil_q.html
There's one, but I already know you'll just mock and deride it. I don't like posting proof, please do your own research. It is the same argument. The medicine may not fix the problem. The people selling us the medicine might be lying. It is snake-oil, but very very dangerous and widely accepted snake-oil.

And this is relevant because? If someone wants to prevent genital warts, more power to them.

I think that is completley relevant. We are working to show that Gardasil has not use in young women, and it is dangerous, and what do they do? Try to offer gardasil to young boys. It is called off label prescription, and these companies get sued all the time for it. Prescribing a medicine for a use it has not been fully tested for. And again, gentile warts (hehe gentile warts hehe) are an unfortunate side effect of unprotected sex with dirty people. So we should start with education that if you have unprotected sex with dirty people, you might well get sick. Not that it is OK, and natural to want to have as much gross sex as possible, and that we should medicate.

About fluoride? All I did was type Fluoride danger into Google, and then clicked the other suggestion of Fluoride Toxic Waste. I know all of this already, but it is that easy these days to learn it for yourself.

Try these:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/toxicchemica...ouride.htm
http://www.garynull.com/documents/Dental...oride2.htm
and one that is in the fully controlled media, http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/09/29/fluor...than-good/
Man, look at that web title, fucking long, eh? I like it.
Please, debunk and laugh at my "proof" that I was chagrined to offer. Please learn to web search on you own.

I am just trying to do my best, I just woke up on this planet like the rest of you. I am trying to figure out what is good and what is bad, but we always argue. I really thing 90% of modern medicine is dysfunctional at best, and criminal at worst. You're allowed to think it is great, and feel free to yell at me and declare the famous "people like me" the problem. I am just trying to figure out what is causing the rise in medical problems over the generations. We could be on the same side, but you're a smart Massachusetts girl and I am some loon who is somehow endangering you by not shutting up and getting on board. I do appreciate your post though, I can see you put a lot of time into it. I wish I could say you were right, and I was wrong, and I see it your way now. I truly wish I could.

And to respond to you after word, you're right that some people want a 100% efficacy rate, or it's poison. You're right, and there are also some people who beleive in a god of the gaps. But not everyone skeptical of modern medicine fits into the all or nothing bubble, and not all of us believers are falling into gaps. It is a fallacy that exists, yes, but it is not a staple. I don't have the 100% efficacy rate flaw by proxy, just because I have doubts and concerns about some modern medicine.

Thank you kindly for sharing. I hope to be able to hold up my end of the debate, while not being too mean or stupid.

The,
-Pip