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February 3, 2010 at 2:38 am (This post was last modified: February 4, 2010 at 4:07 am by tackattack.)
(February 2, 2010 at 10:08 am)Dotard Wrote:
(January 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm)tackattack Wrote: To my knowledge I know of nowhere in ... real life that shows God refusing to assist anyone who was truly accepting and needing.
You've never seen people living under a bridge? You've never seen, or heard of, children starving to the point of death and disease?
I guess you would claim they are not truly needing nor accepting (they would refuse) of help?
I would claim no such thing. I would claim they're victims of a cruel society which was created and maintained by you and I. Not you the god persona you the human. You're attributing things to God which he lets us handle ourselves, and we're obviously not equiped for handling it nearly as well.
(February 2, 2010 at 7:26 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:
(January 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm)tackattack Wrote: 1) OK so it isn't within my power to help everyone, agreed. Therefore, if someone sees God as having the "power" to help those in need and doesn't a lot of atheists call him Evil. The fact is he does help everyone,
No, according to the Bible God does not help everyone. And if you're arguing God doesn't have to help anyone then congratulations for proving atheists right, in that the Biblical portrayal of his character is indeed a complete monster. Please don't make me put up a link to 'Why Won't God Heal Amputees?' website just yet.
Quote:2) yes it is a broad and accurate assertion. You said it yourself isn't directly caused by humankind. I can find no instance of famine or disease or other calamity that isn't directly/ indirectly relatable to Man's lack of understanding, control, manipulation, deciet or misaligned focus.
Malaria is a mosquito-borne infectious disease caused by a eukaryotic protist of the genus Plasmodium. No mention of man's action and/or inaction led to this anywhere within the description.
Quote:3) While your exageration is commendable I don't think you're going to be able to fund that statement with evidence that Yahweh is responsible for the majority of human suffering. Your tense is suggestive of modern human suffering. You might convince some Jews or funamentalist OT readers of that, but I take the Bible in it's entirety.
According to Bible he sure causes a metric arseload of it, I'd like to think you're capable of doing your own research with regards to quoting the Bible, if you really claim to take the Bible in it's entirely. Shit, that was unthinkable for me even when I was a Christian, I loved the concept of God, but there were times when I always disagreed with his inhumane actions, after a long time finally woke up and I realised I was morally superior to the God in the Bible.
1- No I will not retract my statement God helps everyone, I will qualify it with "God helps those who will accept him through Jesus Christ". I would never assert that god doesn't have to help any1, in fact Jesus said he would. And I've been to that worthless site, please no need for linking rhetoric. I don't do it and I think it's actually against the policies here, at least for the theists, so you might be in the clear.
2- yet mankind has created many ways to thwart mosquitos and malaria, the fact that some have access and some don't sounds like a societal problem to me. I'd rather take personal responsibility then schew it off on the creator.
3-If you feel you're morally superior to God then answer why you're assigning moralistic attributes where, by definition, of there is none. Since we're speculating on the bible: I don't deny tons of horendous things in the Bible have have been done in God's name. I don't deny that famines, destruction of cities, and the "fiery wrath of God" is very prevelant in the OT. We were seperated from God due to our choices. We had no way to communicate with God and when we got out of hand we saw him punish us. He got fed up a few times and exiled people, allowed floods w/o warning, etc. Then he sent his son to communicate his will to us. His son left us a way to communicate with him, the holy spirit. I know of no acts of God's Wrath since the time of Jesus, that weren't explained by science or human intervention.