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All the problems with Christianity
#28
RE: All the problems with Christianity
(November 12, 2013 at 12:01 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(November 12, 2013 at 2:36 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Well the bible defines faith as this

Hebrews 11

1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

It would be interesting to discuss how the various denominations of Christianity --or even individual Christians-- understand this definition. When I was a believer, I understood it to mean that faith was based on evidence. After all, why develop a term like "blind faith" if faith itself was understood to mean blind acceptance?

I saw the definition in Hebrews 11:1 in this manner: A father calls his child from work and promises to buy him the toy that he has desperately wanted for weeks. The child has received an assurance of a thing hoped for. When he hears the familiar sound of the front door being opened, he has the conviction of a thing not seen. The child has faith in something based on his father's promise and his track record in delivering on them.

It's not ironclad, of course-- the father might not fulfill his promise. But it's based on reasonable assumptions. If his father had called and promised to bring home a live tyrannosaur, the child would have plenty of reason to doubt and would likely assume that his father was making a joke. He would not automatically have faith that his father would be bringing home an honest-to-goodness dinosaur.

I think theists do themselves a disservice if they use "faith" as a fallback position when reason or evidence fall short. People take things on faith all the time. Taking them on blind faith is another thing entirely.

Maybe you are looking at it backwards?

What if the "gift" has already been given to us?

Then what if the "faith" is [from the father]? Faith to do the right thing with his "gift".

What could a father possibly want his unempowered "child" to do for him? Hmmmmm...

Need him? Obey him? Respect him? Trust him? Love him?
Quis ut Deus?
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Messages In This Thread
All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 11, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 11, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 11, 2013 at 11:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 11:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 11, 2013 at 11:52 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bipolar Bob - November 15, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 11, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 11, 2013 at 11:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by justin - November 12, 2013 at 8:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 11, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Owlix - November 11, 2013 at 11:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 12, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 12:43 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 1:24 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 1:42 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 12, 2013 at 12:54 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Simon Moon - November 12, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 2:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 12, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 13, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 14, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by KichigaiNeko - November 12, 2013 at 2:58 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 12, 2013 at 4:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ayen - November 12, 2013 at 8:42 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 9:31 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ben Davis - November 12, 2013 at 9:37 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 12, 2013 at 9:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by mattpaul42 - November 13, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 13, 2013 at 7:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 14, 2013 at 9:23 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 12, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by TheBeardedDude - November 12, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Mister Agenda - November 12, 2013 at 2:11 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 12, 2013 at 3:55 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Doubting Thomas - November 12, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Crossless1 - November 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 12, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 12, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 12, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by 6ft Atheist - November 13, 2013 at 3:08 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 13, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 13, 2013 at 7:32 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 14, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 14, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 14, 2013 at 12:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chas - November 14, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Mister Agenda - November 14, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 14, 2013 at 8:22 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 13, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 14, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 14, 2013 at 6:15 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 14, 2013 at 6:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 14, 2013 at 7:24 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by CapnAwesome - November 14, 2013 at 7:29 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 15, 2013 at 6:33 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 15, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 15, 2013 at 6:59 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 16, 2013 at 4:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 16, 2013 at 4:55 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 16, 2013 at 7:02 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lion IRC - November 15, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bob Kelso - November 15, 2013 at 8:23 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 15, 2013 at 9:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by paulpablo - November 15, 2013 at 8:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 16, 2013 at 6:32 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by mattpaul42 - November 16, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 17, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 16, 2013 at 12:28 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 17, 2013 at 5:05 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 17, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Jacob(smooth) - November 17, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 17, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 17, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 19, 2013 at 5:00 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 19, 2013 at 10:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 18, 2013 at 1:20 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 19, 2013 at 5:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 19, 2013 at 9:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 20, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 20, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 20, 2013 at 9:27 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 20, 2013 at 11:24 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 24, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 24, 2013 at 1:15 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 25, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 22, 2013 at 6:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 23, 2013 at 5:02 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zen Badger - November 23, 2013 at 5:38 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 23, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 6:39 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ben Davis - November 22, 2013 at 7:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 22, 2013 at 8:22 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 22, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 23, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 23, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 23, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 24, 2013 at 9:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 24, 2013 at 10:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:45 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Godlesspanther - November 24, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Silver - November 24, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Godlesspanther - November 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 26, 2013 at 4:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 26, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 26, 2013 at 12:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 26, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 26, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - December 19, 2013 at 5:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 9:17 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - December 19, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 8:31 am

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