(November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote:(November 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Rationalman Wrote: No, you don't need to see something to know it exists, you need evidence
uh...what is the difference?
You're kidding right? What is the difference between seeing something and evidence? Where to start....
I can see my computer screen in front of me. That is enough evidence to convince me that it exists. However, our brains are notorious for mucking things up. Hallucinations, delirium, imaginary friends. Sometimes we see things that aren't there: aliens, ghosts, bigfoot etc.
And aside from that, we have some things that clearly exist but are not visible to the human eye. The most obvious being gravity, air, the wind. We know these things exist due to evidence. We would not believe they exist if all we did was look for them.
Seeing, definitely is not believing. How many people in the past have looked up at the northern lights and thought gods or magic?
(November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: You are speculating about my daughter. You have only the evidence I gave you.
I have several kids that could've done it. My daughter is in college, with many friends there. She has 3 uncles, and two grandfathers that give her stuff all the time. Not to mention her boyfriend who is always doing stuff for her.
My answer, and all of this was irrelevant due to the fact that you exist and your daughter exists and she knows that you exist. You do not know god exists in the same way your daughter knows that you exist therefore calling this scenario with your daughter: an example of faith is wrong.
(November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: "Faith" is something. You just won't acknowledge it.
Of course we don't acknowledge it, no atheist does. It is not a tool to knowledge or wisdom or enlightenment. Its merely the excuse people give for believing in something without evidence. Its what christians say to you once you have them cornered and they can not justify their belief in god. All their answer comes down to is: well you just gotta have faith.
You parade faith around like some kind of virtue when it clearly is not. It is a no more desirable characteristic in a person than uncontrollable rage and aggression. Believing in something without any evidence is not holy or mystical or spiritual or special. It is stupidity and gullibility and it demonstrates just how irrational the human race can be.
(November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: You won't.... because you want Him to prove Himself first.
So according to your logic here. You would be absolutely willing to start a new job without any other evidence than an email from someone. You wouldn't care that you have never met them before, you wouldn't care if you searched their company on the internet and found nothing. They don't need to prove they or their company exists?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech