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All the problems with Christianity
#66
RE: All the problems with Christianity
(November 13, 2013 at 7:32 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: OK, so I'm sure you've all heard what I'm about to say before, but let me say it anyway so you all can respond to it.
Old Testament slavery (and even NT slavery, for that matter) was nothing like Western or modern slavery. It was a way for foreigners who had gone to war with them in the past to continue to live in their land. And the Bible defines slavery in no uncertain terms in Leviticus 25:

I'm really tired of this old apologetic, because you know that? The bible does define slavery in Leviticus 25, it's just for some odd reason you've chosen to ignore the inconvenient parts and go right to the rules for Hebrew slaves. By the way, I find that kind of slavery immoral too- it's immoral to own another person, period- but there are also rules for the owning of foreigners, so why not take a look at those too:

Leviticus Wrote:However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

So, let's leave aside that this is racist slavery, your apologetic above also breaks down: this isn't some mechanism for having the foreigners live on their own land, because a: they could be foreigners bought from other slave owners, not just conquered ones, b: they would have to move with their owners, and c: they get passed down as inheritance too, as do their families. And let's be clear, this isn't some happy, nice slavery either, because you can beat your slaves unto death, according to Exodus:

Exodus Wrote:When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

Do you know how bad a beating has to be for a person to die a day or two after it's been given? Yeah.

Quote:Although these rules are specifically for Hebrew slaves, it is important to remember that even foreign slaves would have to have entered into it themselves, because of this law in Exodus:
Quote:16 Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

So... what? It's okay to own slaves, just so long as you didn't kidnap them first? What kind of moral lesson is that?

It drives me crazy when christians focus on what happens to Hebrew slaves, as though that somehow diminishes what happens to foreign slaves. It's all there, in the book: reading only certain passages and ignoring the inconvenient ones is inexcusably dishonest, and I really did think better of you, newbie. I hope this was just an oversight.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

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Messages In This Thread
All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 11, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 11, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 11, 2013 at 11:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 11, 2013 at 11:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 11, 2013 at 11:52 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bipolar Bob - November 15, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 11, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 11, 2013 at 11:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by justin - November 12, 2013 at 8:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 11, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Owlix - November 11, 2013 at 11:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 12, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 12:43 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 1:24 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 1:42 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by FallentoReason - November 12, 2013 at 12:54 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Simon Moon - November 12, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 2:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 12, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 12, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 13, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 12, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 12, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 14, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by KichigaiNeko - November 12, 2013 at 2:58 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 12, 2013 at 4:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 12, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ayen - November 12, 2013 at 8:42 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 9:31 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ben Davis - November 12, 2013 at 9:37 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 12, 2013 at 9:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by mattpaul42 - November 13, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 13, 2013 at 7:47 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 14, 2013 at 9:23 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 12, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by TheBeardedDude - November 12, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Mister Agenda - November 12, 2013 at 2:11 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 12, 2013 at 3:55 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Doubting Thomas - November 12, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Crossless1 - November 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 12, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Cinjin - November 12, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 12, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 12, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 12, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by 6ft Atheist - November 13, 2013 at 3:08 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 13, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 13, 2013 at 7:32 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 14, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 14, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 14, 2013 at 12:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chas - November 14, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Mister Agenda - November 14, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 14, 2013 at 8:22 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Anomalocaris - November 13, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 14, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 14, 2013 at 6:15 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 14, 2013 at 6:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by max-greece - November 14, 2013 at 7:24 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by CapnAwesome - November 14, 2013 at 7:29 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 15, 2013 at 6:33 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 15, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 15, 2013 at 6:59 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by ronedee - November 16, 2013 at 4:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 16, 2013 at 4:55 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 16, 2013 at 7:02 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lion IRC - November 15, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bob Kelso - November 15, 2013 at 8:23 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - November 15, 2013 at 9:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by paulpablo - November 15, 2013 at 8:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 16, 2013 at 6:32 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by mattpaul42 - November 16, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 17, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 16, 2013 at 12:28 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 17, 2013 at 5:05 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 17, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Jacob(smooth) - November 17, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 17, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 17, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 19, 2013 at 5:00 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 19, 2013 at 10:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 18, 2013 at 1:20 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 19, 2013 at 5:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 19, 2013 at 9:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - November 20, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Minimalist - November 20, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 20, 2013 at 9:27 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 20, 2013 at 11:24 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 24, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 24, 2013 at 1:15 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 25, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 22, 2013 at 6:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 23, 2013 at 5:02 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zen Badger - November 23, 2013 at 5:38 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 23, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by freedomfromforum - November 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 6:39 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Ben Davis - November 22, 2013 at 7:59 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Wolf - November 22, 2013 at 8:22 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Firstruth - November 22, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 22, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 23, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 23, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Lemonvariable72 - November 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 23, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 24, 2013 at 9:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - November 24, 2013 at 10:33 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Zazzy - November 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:45 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Godlesspanther - November 24, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Paraselene - November 24, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Godlesspanther - November 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - November 26, 2013 at 4:44 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 26, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by MindForgedManacle - November 26, 2013 at 12:42 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Chad32 - November 26, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - November 26, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Avodaiah - December 19, 2013 at 5:36 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 9:17 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Tonus - December 19, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: All the problems with Christianity - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 8:31 am

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