All the problems with Christianity

[Esquilax]

hock: That's not at all what I meant! Let me explain...

I'm glad: I've run into so many christians that are willing to shirk off the part about beatings and foreign slaves and dishonestly stick to only talking about Hebrew slaves. Perhaps you can see why that would make my eye twitch.

I was commenting on slavery in general. not specifically Hebrew or foreign slaves. Leviticus says that Hebrew slaves should be released on the year of jubilee and that they should also be treated well, unlike they were in Egypt. Then it says that foreign slaves are for life, but it makes no comment on the 2nd part of the law, saying that slaves should not be treated with oppression. It seems like that law still applies to foreign slaves as well as Hebrew ones.

So, at most you've got a contradiction here, because the biblical rule on beating your slaves is still in effect, and if that level of violence doesn't constitute oppression, I don't know what does. Modern slavery was oppression, and I can't really see a difference between that and this, especially when you add in all the old testament stories of captured virgin girls as slave brides for their conquerors, and even the flat fact that, under biblical law, any children conceived by a slave also belong to their masters; they didn't have a choice in this at all. To characterize this as voluntary slavery is to ignore all the points at which it isn't voluntary at all; incidentally, the Leviticus ruling is to buy your slaves from the heathens around you; it says nothing about where they might have come from before that.

And that's all leaving aside a more basic fact; can you envision a situation in which slavery could ever be moral? If, today, your government put into law a policy where you could own people of other races, and beat them if you wanted to, and force them to work... would it even matter if it was voluntary or not? Especially since there's no upper limit on the contract; unlike the Hebrews, there's no point that you have to let a foreign slave free, so even if they work off their debt there's no need for you to let them go.

But believe me when I say this: I honestly do believe that the Bible is true. I love talking with you guys about this stuff, but in my mind I am risking nothing by doing it and have nothing to lose by being honest about what is said in it. From the beginning of this thread I have not lied or skewed my beliefs; I stand by what I have said so far. So please believe me when I tell you that ignoring part of the passage was not my intention.

Understood. Like I said, you seem more honest than some theists here, but that's not gonna save unjustified beliefs from the axe.