Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 16, 2025, 12:25 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ok.... Explain this one?
#42
RE: Ok.... Explain this one?
(November 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm)ronedee Wrote: I don't know! I've NEVER had a person who prayed, come to me and say they weren't answered in some way.

Was it the exact results they wanted? No, not in every case. But, in my experience of "life & death" cases there have been miracles not explained, except that there were prayers involved.
I felt the same way as you do when I was a believer. Regardless of how things turned out, we could rationalize it as a prayer being answered. But while the explanations were predictable, the results never were. So we thought we were showing people a consistency of results, when what we had was a consistency of rationalizations. Showing us a result that isn't consistent, and applying a rationalization that is, does not offer a compelling argument for divine intervention; it offers a compelling argument for "we see what we want to see."
ronedee Wrote:Does prayer help those that pray... and don't really trust God? that's another good question. I don't know. I have only my own experiences.
As a believer I would have said that yes, prayers can help those who do not believe, as long as the prayer is asking something in keeping with god's will. (Acts 10 may be an example of this)
ronedee Wrote:Again, most extreme cases were answered in prayer. I can't think of one where it didn't help. Not one.
Nor can we prove that the devout and virtuous people that died in natural disasters prayed to god, but I think we would also find it very unlikely that none of them ever did. When any outcome can be rationalized as an answer to prayer, then it's easy to believe that god answers prayers.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 18, 2013 at 12:10 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jackalope - November 18, 2013 at 12:15 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Owlix - November 18, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by The Valkyrie - November 18, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 18, 2013 at 1:17 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tonus - November 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 18, 2013 at 1:36 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tonus - November 18, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 18, 2013 at 2:19 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tonus - November 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bad Wolf - November 18, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Mister Agenda - November 19, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Silver - November 18, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by The Valkyrie - November 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by I am God - November 20, 2013 at 12:11 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 20, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by I am God - November 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by The Valkyrie - November 18, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Minimalist - November 18, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by rexbeccarox - November 18, 2013 at 12:37 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Angrboda - November 18, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 18, 2013 at 1:05 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 18, 2013 at 1:05 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Owlix - November 18, 2013 at 1:05 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by MindForgedManacle - November 18, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - November 18, 2013 at 1:47 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bob Kelso - November 18, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Whateverist - November 18, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Owlix - November 18, 2013 at 2:43 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Esquilax - November 18, 2013 at 3:18 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 18, 2013 at 3:24 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 18, 2013 at 4:13 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bad Wolf - November 18, 2013 at 4:18 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by max-greece - November 18, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 18, 2013 at 4:35 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Esquilax - November 18, 2013 at 4:51 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by pocaracas - November 18, 2013 at 5:39 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 18, 2013 at 6:00 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Dionysius - November 19, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Fruity - November 18, 2013 at 6:54 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 18, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 18, 2013 at 8:30 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Zen Badger - November 18, 2013 at 8:35 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 18, 2013 at 8:48 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by LastPoet - November 18, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bad Wolf - November 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Anomalocaris - November 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by downbeatplumb - November 18, 2013 at 2:03 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Anomalocaris - November 18, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by downbeatplumb - November 18, 2013 at 3:02 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 18, 2013 at 3:22 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 18, 2013 at 3:18 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by downbeatplumb - November 18, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 19, 2013 at 5:45 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bad Wolf - November 19, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jackalope - November 19, 2013 at 5:59 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 19, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Faith No More - November 19, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tonus - November 20, 2013 at 9:48 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by The Valkyrie - November 19, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Mister Agenda - November 19, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jackalope - November 19, 2013 at 9:40 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 19, 2013 at 9:49 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 21, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Ryantology - November 21, 2013 at 4:29 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Whateverist - November 20, 2013 at 7:55 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 18, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by JesusHChrist - November 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by JesusHChrist - November 18, 2013 at 4:34 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Minimalist - November 18, 2013 at 8:53 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Darkstar - November 18, 2013 at 7:56 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jackalope - November 18, 2013 at 8:01 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cato - November 18, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cato - November 18, 2013 at 8:57 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by MitchBenn - November 19, 2013 at 7:00 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by LastPoet - November 19, 2013 at 7:48 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tonus - November 19, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 19, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Silver - November 19, 2013 at 10:32 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - November 19, 2013 at 11:03 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Faith No More - November 19, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 19, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - November 19, 2013 at 5:12 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by pocaracas - November 19, 2013 at 10:41 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Strongbad - November 19, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 19, 2013 at 5:35 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 19, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Bad Writer - November 19, 2013 at 5:53 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 19, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 19, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Doubting Thomas - November 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 19, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Jacob(smooth) - November 19, 2013 at 5:27 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - November 19, 2013 at 5:58 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Fruity - November 19, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Angrboda - November 20, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by LastPoet - November 20, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Minimalist - November 21, 2013 at 11:23 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 21, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Minimalist - November 21, 2013 at 11:57 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 21, 2013 at 11:23 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by LastPoet - November 21, 2013 at 11:30 am
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Faith No More - November 21, 2013 at 5:53 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by ronedee - November 22, 2013 at 4:58 pm
RE: Ok.... Explain this one? - by Cyberman - November 22, 2013 at 5:01 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  God is completely inadequate to explain anything whatsoever Whateverist 20 3992 March 14, 2018 at 5:27 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  Atheists, how would you explain these Christian testimonies? miguel54 44 11991 August 28, 2016 at 7:46 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Christians: Please Explain Aractus 43 12237 December 10, 2015 at 11:07 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Please Explain Shuffle 26 7128 August 26, 2015 at 7:49 pm
Last Post: Shuffle
  Can someone explain this to me ? Genesis 1. Science 110 29112 November 23, 2014 at 11:59 am
Last Post: Nope
  To explain knowledge of God Godscreated 290 50485 October 25, 2014 at 3:54 pm
Last Post: ThomM
  If you are religious explain Neanderthals freedeepthink 28 7545 October 6, 2014 at 4:59 pm
Last Post: freedeepthink
  Christians: Please explain the Exodus Aractus 274 33308 October 3, 2014 at 12:28 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  CHISTIANS PLEASE EXPLAIN truthBtold 273 66333 February 5, 2014 at 9:55 am
Last Post: YahwehIsTheWay
  CHRISTIANS PLEASE EXPLAIN "tower of babel" truthBtold 40 12983 January 15, 2014 at 5:51 pm
Last Post: Chad32



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)