Avoidaiah, you did not reply to my post earlier, but I get that you're trying to focus on one or two arguments at a time, so that's fine and you don't have to reply to this, this is just what I think of your response.
One of the things that doesn't prove god, but does add to the evidence that there may be a god (right now I think there is no such evidence) is some sort of demonstration of knowledge, for example, it would be quite astounding if you could on this forums post my name, the one my parents gave me when I was born. It's a Chinese name, I've extended this challenge to another guy on here who claimed to be god (seriously he did) and he couldn't do it. So if you do talk to god, and tell him that by giving you this piece of information you could very likely save my soul. Let me know what god says.
Can you prove that the prophecy was written before the events happened? And can you prove that it was god who made the prophecy and the writer did not just overhear from some advisor or whatever? You do realize that for the bible to be written by god it needs to be 100% correct, one mistake the entire thing goes down the drain. And even if it is 100% correct it still doesn't prove god. So it's not just 1 prophecy, all of them needs to come true. And as I said before, genesis pretty much discredits the entire bible.
(November 19, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Avodaiah Wrote:So you are saying you have no proof of god besides the bible which makes it circular logic. The bible is real because god says so and god is real because the bible says so. But you believe without evidence, as you have quite clearly admitted. So now you see why atheists don't think there's a god, because there isn't one.(November 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: This is now between you and me. Throw your Bible out the window, and don't bring it up again. If you do, you have lost my attention. Deal?What you're asking me to do is impossible, regardless of God's existence, Jesus's existence, the Bible's reliability, Christianity's veracity, or anything else.
Let me keep this real simple.
Can you prove that you have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe?
You're not just asking me to prove God's existence, you're asking me to prove that I have a personal relationship with Him. In order to do this, I would have to produce some form of communication with Him, because what is a relationship without communication? But the way God communicates with people is in their hearts and minds, which cannot be detected by other people.
Even if I was to prove this personal relationship I have, I would also have to prove that this person I have a relationship with is God. How can I do that without even mentioning a source that tells who created the universe and who he has a relationship with?
But let me point out something about that challenge you gave me: You did not refute any of my arguments. You said I wanted to believe, you said I was blinded by confirmation bias, you said my arguments were unconvincing, but you did not refute even one of them. So why do you expect me to throw my Bible out the window?
Regardless, I think I'll have to bow out of this one. Sorry.
One of the things that doesn't prove god, but does add to the evidence that there may be a god (right now I think there is no such evidence) is some sort of demonstration of knowledge, for example, it would be quite astounding if you could on this forums post my name, the one my parents gave me when I was born. It's a Chinese name, I've extended this challenge to another guy on here who claimed to be god (seriously he did) and he couldn't do it. So if you do talk to god, and tell him that by giving you this piece of information you could very likely save my soul. Let me know what god says.
Quote:MindForgedManacle Wrote:To talk about Biblical prophecy as some uniquely special, indisputable and factual thing is to pretend that people are so stupid that they can't look back at apparent prophecies and try to make them fit with any number of events, or that they cannot construct very vague, general claims of the future. Nostradamus anyone? Psychics? Come on now. We already some of the Gospels do this. I forget which one exactly (I think it's Matthew), but one of the Gospels does this to extraordinary lengths that's it's absurd and poorly done.Yes, of course many weak prophecies are held up with crutches like these. But it is a fallacy (hasty generalization, to be specific) to say that all prophecies must be like this just because some are.
Take a look at the prophecies in the middle of Page 12. Many of them said exactly what event would happen, leaving no room for interpretation (e.g. mentioning Cyrus as the conqueror of Babylon).
Can you prove that the prophecy was written before the events happened? And can you prove that it was god who made the prophecy and the writer did not just overhear from some advisor or whatever? You do realize that for the bible to be written by god it needs to be 100% correct, one mistake the entire thing goes down the drain. And even if it is 100% correct it still doesn't prove god. So it's not just 1 prophecy, all of them needs to come true. And as I said before, genesis pretty much discredits the entire bible.