Zazzy Wrote:After presenting me with a strawman and being called on it, I see Avodaiah has decided to drop me. Well, that's a good strategy when you have argued shittily.Sorry for not getting back to you Zazzy, as PBB has pointed out I'm trying to focus on only a couple arguments at a time.
Incidentally, I took another look at our conversation and I don't think I've put up a straw man.
Zazzy Wrote:I just can't see any reason to even care what it says other than on a literary level (obviously reading it is important to be well-educated in Western literature). The stories in it are so absurd that I have never even seen why so many people find them so important and ennobling.You said the absurdness of some of the stories in the Bible was one of your problems with Christianity, i.e. an argument against it. So you were trying to prove something.
Unless of course you were saying it might me true but it seems unlikely and doesn't make sense to you, in which case I apologize for my misunderstanding.
PBB Wrote:So you are saying you have no proof of god besides the bible which makes it circular logic. The bible is real because god says so and god is real because the bible says so.I know about God because of what the Bible says, but the evidence for the Bible is not because God said so. There are plenty of evidences for the Bible other than the Bible itself, even more than I already mentioned.
PBB Wrote:Can you prove that the prophecy was written before the events happened? And can you prove that it was god who made the prophecy and the writer did not just overhear from some advisor or whatever?There is every reason to believe this prophecy is a genuine one. While it is true that Isaiah was divided into three parts, and another prophet likely wrote this prophecy, the qualifications for even being a prophet lend a lot of credibility. Here is one of them:
Deuteronomy 18:22 Wrote:when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.Like you said, prophecy has to be 100% correct, and the ancient Jewish people knew this, yet there is not a single claim, as far as I can find, that these prophecies were anything other than genuine, from ancient times up to the present.
MindForgedManacle Wrote:And where did I make that hasty generalization in that post? Go on, I'll wait while you fail to find it.I found it:
MindForgedManacle Wrote:To talk about Biblical prophecy as some uniquely special, indisputable and factual thing is to pretend that people are so stupid that they can't look back at apparent prophecies and try to make them fit with any number of events, or that they cannot construct very vague, general claims of the future. Nostradamus anyone? Psychics? Come on now. We already some of the Gospels do this. I forget which one exactly (I think it's Matthew), but one of the Gospels does this to extraordinary lengths that's it's absurd and poorly done.(emphasis mine)
See what you did? You started with Biblical prophecy, made a comment about prophecy in general, and then used Nostradamus and psychics, who had nothing to do with the Bible, as examples. Effectively you said that all prophecy is equal.
But that's just the point: The prophecies on Page 12 are not vague and cannot be interpreted in any number of ways. They each speak of one specific event, and that event happened.
The Reality Salesman Wrote:Isn't it odd that the only reason you associate this "relationship" with God is because a book tells you to?I don't think so. The Bible doesn't prove I have a relationship; it talks about the One I have a relationship with. It doesn't seem odd to me because if you have a relationship with someone you listen to them when they tell you about themselves.