Man's morality

[Darkstar]

Righteousness does not have anything to do with what we understand to be 'good.' Righteousness is the standard in which we must obtain (though attonement offered by Christ) to enter Heaven.

So, if I understand correctly, the laws are effectively without meaning, and accepting Jesus is all that matters?

Then what use it this so called righteousness if it has nothing to do with our actions?

When Paul answered this questions in the book of Romans he said we have this standard to point to our sins/short commings.

So righteousness does tell you about right and wrong, but is technically not morality, and doesn't need to be followed to the letter. Am I understanding this correctly?

Whatever that means... Accepting Jesus is all that matters?

yes

So acts mean...nothing?

by themselves no. What makes an act good or bad before the eyes of God is the reason you do what you do.

Okay, that answers my above question. So this means that committing genocide in god's name is preferable to doing good deeds in your own?

So you don't care that god's rulebook is flawed? Or...is that because it isn't a rulebook?

It is a rule book with one purpose. To highlight that no matter our best efforts we will never be able to follow the rules to the standard need to enter Heaven.

But are the rules actual a good (albeit unattainable) standard on how to live, or are they just arbitrary?

He could also use magic to do something totally unorthodox. I think you are selling his omnipotence short. He sure didn't hold back against Sodom and Gomorrah.

how do you know it was magic? It may have been magic to lot, but Fire, sulfer, salt all 'smell' like an eruption of somesort to me. Last I checked eruptions are apart of this world. What makes this is an act of God is the fact that God triggered it to punish a wicked people as He said He would.

God is still (supposedly) omnipotent. He could just use magic if he really wanted to. How did he flood the world, for example? Where did all of that water come from?

He doesn't have to care...if he exists.

Then if God does not care about man's judgement against Him then doesn't that make man's morality impotent? Fore a standard that can not be supported or enforced is not a standard at all.
What if i wanted to buy light bubls using a star trek unit of energy measure?
What if i demanded that light bulb manifacturers start selling bulbs rated in Cochranes rather than watts?

If I can not enforce or make an authority accept my standard then my 'standard' becomes useless.

So more might makes right? God can force his standard on us, so that makes it legitimate? Except that he can't really force it on us. Or at least doesn't (if he exists).

So if they get reincarnated...why the outrage?

They were never 'incarnate' to begin with so they are not 're-incarnated'

Okay, technically true.

We are told we are all given to Live once and die to judgement. If they did not have a chance to live then it stands to reason they will be given an oppertunity someplace else. Why the out rage?!?!? BECAUSE YOU/WE ARE STILL KILLING BABIES BY THE MILLIONS! and it is justified morally. (If not by you by the soceity in which we both live)

*cough*fetus*cough*
But still, if they aren't really being lost, then what is the big deal?

so no TV repersenting highschoolers in provoctive outfits

Okay, I guess I have seen a little of that. I thought you were talking about twelve year olds or something.

14 is high school age. 14 is still too young even if it is not 12.

I was thinking more like 16-18, but yeah 14 is too young IMO.

So you should at least try to follow god's absolute standard, to show him you care, and even if you fail, you're still saved...right?

yes

Or is that not it? I keep getting the impression that you are suggesting that there is no need to even try.

Let's say you were not married, or attached, and you like girls. Then let's say someone way way way too go for you wants to have a relationship with you. She's rich, famous, smart, funny, __________ (fill in your own blanks) There is absolutly nothing you can offer her other than yourself and your whole being in love. Now with in this expressive love (the one thing you can offer) how would you let it manifest? Would you do thing she would like? Flowers, love notes, brush your teeth (Again fill in your own blanks to things you know she likes and wants from you)

-or do you say forget it and cheat on her, stand her up, let your breath stink/teeth fall out? (things you know she hates?)

Now do you do these things because you love this person with all that you have avaiable to you or are you trading these expressions/acts for favors/her love?

Now keep in mind there is nothing you can give her beside love to warrant her love. is Love truly in the things you do or is love the reason you do them?

Both. Love can lead to sincerely heartfelt affections, but also to bitter jealousy. If you love someone, but have a funny way of showing it, they may not be so appreciative.

I don't even recall you ever trying to defend the law as legitimate (even if it doesn't need to be followed/can't be perfectly adhered to).

It is absolutly legitmate and every aspect of it is still in effect. Which is the reason we need attonement. After we have attonement it serves as a guideline to show us how to love God and relate to each other as God wants us to do.

But it isn't really, is it? You seem to say that intentions trump actual actions in the eyes of god. You used this as justification to lie about knowing where Jews were hiding to Nazis, even though this breaks god's rule(s) against lying.

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If lying is always wrong, should you admit to knowing where Jews were hidden?

No. Why? Because in God's economy 'right and wrong' has nothing to do with our acts anymore. Rather our acts hold no value in of themselves. This is what seperates God Righteousness from man's 'moral' soceity.

A lie, a Murder, giving to the poor, helping or even 'Healing' people means nothing by itself. What asigns value to these acts "Good or bad" (as you understand them) is the condition of one's heart. That is what attonement means. All of your deeds are wiped out and what is left is the condition of your heart.

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Yet, if we simply have good intentions and try to be personally good, we will fall back on human morality, something you clearly detest.

Allowing gay marriage does not in any way dismantle marriage and family.

Then if it were exactly the same why does God not allow for it?

Because some primitive bigots made him up a few millenia ago and put those words in his mouth. ...you don't want that answer, do you?

The fact that your morality is based purely on how many people you can convert unnerves me a bit.

conversion has nothing to do with righteousness. No all are called to do this as a way to express love to God. i do this because I am being faithful to what God has given me.

I keep getting the "Christian serial killer goes to heaven, atheist philanthropist goes to hell" vibe from you. You would really prefer a society in which gays were violently persecuted if it helped spread you religion?

I clearly stated that I did not know which was better.

So you're at least considering that the serial killer is better?

The bottom line: If our acts in relation to god's righteousness do not matter, as you have claimed multiple times, then why do you bother condemning abortion?

Where is the heart of a person who justifies killing a baby? Is it with the want and will of God? Is it with being faithful to the gift of life God has given you? or is it with self? how this baby will negitivly change the way you would have to live your life?

I suppose in the case of someone who devotes their life to the Judeo-Christian god, this logic would be sound.