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December 11, 2013 at 3:59 pm (This post was last modified: December 11, 2013 at 4:01 pm by Godscreated.)
(December 11, 2013 at 6:07 am)FreeTony Wrote:
Ok so I'm God and I'm making a person.
I have various choices to make about designing this person, e.g. their DNA, the make up of their soul etc etc.
However I can also see the future so know exactly what this person will say and do for their entire life based on these design paramaters. Of course these life choices are also made as a result of one's environment, but that is also controlled by God ultimately. The same with any other factor.
Then I send them to Hell based on their life choices.
It is all of course nonsense. I've seen the argument around freewill vs omniscience before, but never introducing the design aspect first. (It probably has been done before, most of these arguments seemed to have been done thousands of years before)
Even if you take the argument back to just the big bang, and say God had a choice about how the universe would turn out, the argument still works. After all, Christians always say "look at how the universe was perfectly designed, it must have been done by a God".
Have I made any flaws in this argument? I guess the only one is that God's omnipotence can turn off his omniscience during the design process? Or that God is not omnipotent and/or omniscient? Or that God is just a prick.
There are many of these. Including why design both diseases and an immune system? Scientists all around the world are working on eliminating disease to make the world a better place. This:
1. Is undermining God's fine work in creating disease and misery for humans.
2. Means that scientists are better creatures than God.
Scientists have all but eliminated diseases like smallpox. They're obviously not essential to have, yet God must have put them there. This one doesn't even need any mention of freewill.
You forgot many things, like sin is what brought all bad things into the creation, the creation was perfect until sin entered. If you believed in God would you desire to be His little puppet on strings? Being who He says He is do you think He would make you a puppet?
GC
(December 11, 2013 at 3:19 pm)Upside Down Dog Wrote: Yeah, Calvinists such as myself don't believe in free will.
So are you saying God would send those He created to hell, just because it is what He desires? What about the scripture that says God desires no one should suffer eternal punishment.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
