Man's morality

[Drich]

No he doesn't. PEOPLE create a delusion they feel comfortable in. I was a devout Christian for the first 2/3rds of my life. It is why I have a wealth of knowledge of the bible.

I've also been a Christian 2/3's of my life and have spent the last 6 to 8 years studying the bible and answering questions 4 to 8 hours just about everyday, and I still haven't accumulated a 'wealth of knoweledge' yet.. Maybe that is why I am still in the faith and you are not. Because at no point have I ever believed that I have it all figured out..

It is also the reason I came out the other side of my biblical studies an Atheist. I A/S/Ked a few too many questions and found it all to be just a lie with little substance.

How does one Ask, Seek and Knock too many questions?
I have A/S/Ked every question I had, and got an answer. These answers made me re-examine my understanding of God and religion, and I had to change what i initially thought about God and religion, After i did there was nothing i could ask that God did not provide an answer for. So i sought your questions to A/S/K. To date there hasn't been a biblically based question i haven't been able to get an answer to. now that does not mean you all like my answers or except them, but nothing has gone unanswered as of yet.

And please spare me the No True Scotsman garbage.

I honestly do not believe you guys truly understand this fallacy.
No true scotsman is only a fallacy when there aren't conditions placed on being a 'true scotsman' other than someone's opinion. There are factual biblically based conditions on Christianity therefore no true scotsman does not apply.

Nice dodge. So I'm gonna go ahead and assume you have no evidence other than your preferred delusion.

If the evidence of God is contact with God, then what 'evidence' can i possiably possess myself? I can only arrange a meeting or rather tell you what you have to do to arrange your own meeting.

I had it too...

Probably not. You had sincerity and support from people with the same feelings.

then realized it's just smoke and mirrors force fed to me by my family and peers.

As i just said.

It's the same reason most Christian children believe in Santa. Because it's jammed down their throats from birth and everyone around them tells them it's true.

The Proof God offers has nothing to do with your peers or parents. If your total experience hinges on what your peers and family said/did then you never A/S/K as outlined in luke 11. Therefore you never 'had it.'

That's exactly how I can tell you what it ISN'T... it ISN'T reality. It's fiction.

Because you did do what God asked of you and found nothing?
I'm sure for you this all somehow makes sense. I do not share your belief.

And would only be a reflection of the writer's ideas on morality or righteousness. That is the limit of its scope and meaning. So if we are to take the bible... it's bronze age fiction and is only relevant to the culture that created it. For us in the year 2013 in America... it's meaningless for any purpose other than to study and bygone and archaic culture.

Your right as a form of morality God's righteousness is not applicable to mordern values, which is why i have made an attempt to seperate the two. Because the modern understanding is based on works/deeds. and what God has established is not.

In fact Thor and the Hulk would be a more meaningful text on morality and righteousness as they are more closely linked with our own culture. The creators of these fictions are products of our culture.

You've seem to miss the point. Hulk and thor was use to establish a context, you speaking to content of hulk and thor.

Of course it is. God is a creation of man. His "righteousness" is a direct reflection of the ideas of his creators.

Actually it doesn't.
Man's morlity as I have said 6 dozen times already is based on works deeds and God's is not. There are two completely different ways of determining value here, you keep trying to combine them into one.

again God does not look at works to judge good or bad
Man does.

If God is a creation of man then why did we give God a value system that is completely forgein to us? You still don't seem to get it even given your mastery of the bible.

Because our moral standards are based on the idea that acts themselves have a right and wrong value.

No they don't. Our acts are neutral.

Show me a culture that shows an indifference to murder (not killing but murder.)

Our culture judges whether they are good or bad.

If I kill than man that hurt my little girl... most would think me morally just. If I kill the same man for no reason at all... I'm a murderer.

Then you mean to say that everytime a killer is identified as a murderer then He is always deemed morally wrong and owes a debt to soceity?

The ACT was the same. The reason is moral or not. And God, Thor, or Hulks fictional stance on the issue has nothing to do with reality other than what their creators think about the subject.

Unless you are to be judged by Him, on the bases of His standard.

God's righteousness is based in fiction and only reflects the views of his creators.

Can you support your claim?

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[quote='Drich' pid='559168' dateline='1386607310']It depends on what the bible says about genocide. If we were OT Jews Yes, but Being NT Christians No. What we 'do' must still fit with in the confines of what God wants.
If God say do not murder and you kill in His name your still in sin.

An example of your god's morality changing - something you've expressly denied.

God's standards have not changed. Jesus Died because they did not/will not ever change. However because of His death we/Christians are no longer held to those standards that those who have not accepted Christ are still being held to. Everyone else, that's a different matter.

Glad we agree that your god's rules are neither good nor moral.

So do you now see a need to seperate the mordern defination of 'good and morality' from that of God's?

Absolutly

Yes!

This life is not about 'forcing us' to do anything. In this life we are free to express what it is that is in our hearts. Accountablity comes after this life is over.

Except, by your own admission, he sis all about forcing his standard upon us - when he chooses to do so is irrelevant.

So long as you're aware.

But, according to you, we must do this even if we dont wish any such thing.

no, You only 'must do this' if you want to be apart of His creation. Those who wish to seperate themselves from Him are free to do so.

But I am making a judgment - and the judgment is that the shift in morality is wrong. It has been made through propaganda and not rational discourse and the given justification is invalid. And don't accuse me of "following the propaganda blindly" without even knowing my political position on the matter - you are the only one who comes out looking like an idiot.

Are you still apart of the culture? are you still connected to the 'grid?' do you still benfit from soceity and the results of the actions taken in the middle east? If yes to any of these questions, then the observation can be made that you do not seem too overly convicted to your 'political views' when they go against your 'morality.' Your just a objector in name only. As such my points still stand.

The shift in moral consideration given to suspected terrorists is the perfect example of fear perpetrated by propaganda is an irrational method of changing the society's moral outlook. Its a step backwards in our moral growth.

Indeed. but so is every step we take that takes us further from God.

ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

I asked you to look up 'fact', not 'propaganda'. However, notice the use of the word 'or' - indicating that propaganda doesn't always use facts and also notice the absence of any support for your argument that propaganda can change facts.

Do you want example of Nazi propaganda that changed the Historial facts concerning the 'aryan' race?

Why did you quote "Statement of belief"? I did not say a fact was a statement of belief.

Yes, you did.

a fact is a statement of belief that can be proven or disproved.

If you are going to lie, do a better job.

my mistake Statement OR Belief, not statement of belief.

['Planet' is a classification - not an inherent property. I dentification of Pluto as a planet was incorrect before 1989.

Yet the identification of pluto's planetary status was herolded as Fact.

That we were not aware of the actual fact and mistakenly taught wrong something incorrect only to correct ourselves later is not evidence that "facts change",

Actually it does. You may not like that fact, but pluto was considered a planet since it's discovery. It wasn't till a few years ago did that fact change. The is a clear cut example of a fact being altered to reflect a different understanding of a given belief.

much less that they could be done by propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda#Text_books
The facts in these text books were change to reflect Nazi propaganda. Nazi Children were also taught 'facts' did not change as well. wonder why?

Except, your god's righteousness also instructs in what 'should be done'. That he goes on to add that "you can't do it" is irrelevant.

How so?

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