Man's morality

[Drich]

Keep studying and maybe you'll get there. I spent about 15 years and some at the university level studying the bible.

Where? what was your objective? what would take 15 years to learn? did you accomplish your goal? What happened?

I've studied the original Hebrew and Greek. I know the book's origins, I know where these myths came from and I know the history of how they were generated. You cannot just study the bible and then think you understand it. You have to understand the history of the cultures that surrounded it and how it came to exist. You have to understand the cultures that pre-date it and how they effected it's creation. It's a much bigger puzzle than just the book.

Really?!?!? That's good to know.

Without using the BS response of "Mysterious Ways" or "Bigger plan that we don't always understand." What answer did you get for why God allows children to suffer and die when he himself has the power to help them? Take a look at this picture of this vulture waiting for his meal to stop moving so he may feast... where is your God at in this picture...

God doesn't allow Children to suffer. God empowered whole nations with an excess of wealth, with the money, resources, logisitcal ablity to solve all the world's hunger problems, but rather than help, and come off some of the nation's excess, The world's d-bags curse God for not giving everyone the excess they have come a custom to.
All the while He has made it possiable to care for these people If we would only share what we have.

Because Greed has so filled the Hearts of people like you (who would post a picture like this and question God all the while has a month's worth of food in their house) You see you excess as an entitlement, rather than a call to share. To the point where you demand God give everyone the same excess you enjoy. All the while if you and everyone like you were to simply take less and give more, Pictures like this would not exist.

How do I know you not a person who "takes less and gives more?" Because you asked the question why does God let babies like this starve. If you spent any time working in situations like this you would have your answer and not need to ask God or me. Even people who work secular benevolence programs knows the answer to this problem.

LOL.. please share them with me. This should be funny.

Already gone over them with genkaus.

I see... I guess I'm not a True Scotsman after all huh? Such a pitiful response. I had hoped for more.

Define the 'No true scotsman fallacy'

Don't be childish. I have no belief. If you question the bible, God, and Christianity and judaism completely...

What makes you think I haven't? Because I did not come to your conclusions?

you will find the lack of substance in them.

I saw the 'lack of substance' others were trying to make a case for, and I pressed on till i found God. I did not look at the bible as proof of the treasure it talks about I look to follow the directions it provided and found what it promised. A map is not 'proof' of treasure. It is the treasure that prooves a map's legitmacy.
The "substance" arguements always focous on the idea that it is possiable to determine whether or not the map will lead to treasure by exaimining the map itself and how/when it was made. This would be a legitmate way to discern a map's viablity if ALL the Variables were known. In short after 2000+ years the variables can never be known, so the only viable way to comfirm the legitmacy of the map is to follow it, not to discuss in a committy whether or not there is enough evidence to support the claim of the viablity concerning the proablity of.. whatever.

Just follow the directions exactly and if you find what you have been promised then the map is good.

But you do have to disconnect your fear of Hell, fear of death, and fear of losing your security blanket first.

I do not fear death or hell. I have found quite the oppsite is true. It is the Atheist who fears accountiablity, and subsequently Hell. That is why he works so hard to try and 'kill God' with his logic and reason. It's a judgement day defense strageity. a plan 'b' if you will. So you can goto God and claim there was not enough 'proof' therfore you could not be held accountable to your deeds. The Atheist Needs oblivion to avoid Hell.

If there is no Heaven and no Hell then where is the need for fear?

Otherwise you will always revert back to Faith by Fear.

My faith is based in love, I have seen the gates of Hell and do not fear them more than I long to be welcomed into the Love God offers us.

But you can't. They flow from the same source... Man.

Then why does one contradict the other?

Depends on if you worship Paul or James. " For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also"

So this is your Collage level stuff huh? You do know Paul and James are talking about two different types of death correct? If so then what does the worship of Paul over James have to do with the context of these two seperate passages?

Actually it doesn't. Man's morlity as I have said 6 dozen times already is based on works deeds and God's is not. There are two completely different ways of determining value here, you keep trying to combine them into one.

Because they come from the same source... Man. Man creates God and sets him on the unreachable pedestal. And he is perfectly righteous and his ways are not our ways blah blah blah. But then we watch God... and the instructions he gives man. And he doesn't act in any way that we'd consider moral.

But, if our defination of 'moral is always changing, and God does not change then how can He possiably be 'moral'? Are you so blind to see that you are describing the Ultimate example of shift the goal posts?
Even by the standards of man's own logic you line of thought is falicious.

And so an excuse must be made for that. Who are we to judge God? His ways are not our ways. Go back to Job... he allowed the man to be tortured...

But, He didn't He protected Job (per the 'hedge' satan described that God put around his whole life.) All except the time satan was allowed to challenge job's faith. And, even then there were limits God placed on Satan. When the challenge was over and Job proved Himself faithful He was given 10x's what he lost.

he showed such cruel indifference to Job.

In all of your collegic level of study have you even read the book of Job? If you had you know the 'indifference Came from satan and not God. God parshially 'lowered the shield' around Job and satan attacked to the limits of what he was allowed. If God was indifferent then why was their a 'shield' before durning and after the trial of job?

And the second Job dare question him... his response is basically... "I'm God, I made the earth and heavens... how dare your question me."

In-fracking-deed.

So this is the central hub of God's righteousness... cause God says so and he's God.

Yes, Might makes right.

And the simple believer has to just accept that he's superior and so it must be right.

Amen. preach it!

But it's the key that he's fiction. Because even though he's supposed to be morally perfect and righteous... his actions are very human and flawed.

If this were true then why doesn't God's 'morality' match or even exceed our own? Why is it shown to be completely different than anything man has ever known? Why was it written this way if it is contary to what we understand?

That's what makes him God. Why does superman fly, have unlimited strength, and can shoot laser beams from his eyes? That's what makes him a super man. Your God couldn't be the majestic character he is if he was just like us. He has to be all powerful, all knowing, and perfectly righteous. Otherwise he wouldn't be God.

But again God would not be God if He is somehow thought to be 'less' than us. Doesn't the 'morality' of God make Him less than us? if so how can He still be God, if we are just making stuff up? It would seem to me that atheist believe the God is supposted repersent their morality times 10. This was what was taught in the darkages church for quite sometime (1500+ years). So again my question is if this is what we think God is supposed to be, then why is it the oppsite (in most cases) of what the bible teaches?

If it is as you say and we have created God to reflect the best of the best of man.. To be a 'super-man.' Then why does He fall short when we compare Him to our goal post of morality?

It's circular reasoning. Why is this invented perfect being so perfect? Cause he's a a perfect being and that's how he rolls.

But that's just it sport, all the stuff you brought up in Job proves He is not your understanding of perfect. (even if you got it all wrong.)

Why would anyone NOT fancy their invented God perfectly and so inhumanly righteous?

EXACTLY!!!, So why is the God of the bible 'flawed' by your understanding of morality if He were indeed created by man?

Yet when you look at the laws he inspired or even dictated straight to man... He's far from anything approaching what we'd call moral. Yet he must remain perfectly righteous because he's God and he can do that. The mental gymnastics you guys jump through to stay in your delusion are impressive. But I understand it comes from a place of accepting without reason or question.

You are missing a HUGE piece of the puzzle. (which means your 15 years of bible study was probably a waist of time)

Again, I point back to the church of the dark ages. They are the ones who set into motion the idea of maintaining a set 'moral standard.' (the same basic principle we live by today) Not content but a works based form of righteousness. These guys had complete control of the bible. They even translated it into a dead language so as to keep it out of the hands of the common man. this allowed them to make all sorts of changes and completely control all aspects of this religion without anyone having the ablity to question their authority.

My question to you is, why wasn't the bible changed then to reflect this works based morality they pushed hard for 1500 years? Why wasn't the picture of God changed to reflect the image of man/super-man/god thing you described?

They had complete control over all the manuscripts of the bible, and over all the traditions of the church in that time. So Why didn't the written word in 1500 years make the changes the church at that time did?

what perserved the bible as it was written?

Again if things happen like you said, all anyone need do was lose an orginal book and replace it with one that made the changes needed to support their church doctrine. In that time they had no problems comming up with stuff like that. Pieces of the orginal cross, the shroud Christ was buried in, the spear He was periced with, the nails they used. All the church need do is have the pope bless this new thing and it was law.
So why wasn't God changed if God was man made then? Why did God stand in stark contrast to the doings of the church in that period?