Man's morality

[Drich]

I spent 15 years studying the bible. For the first portion of my studies I was in love with Christ. I wanted to know everything about him. I wanted to learn all I could learn about my God. I saw so many people claiming to be followers of Christ yet all they could do was repeat a few lines of scripture. And many had terrible misconceptions that they had heard from somewhere but never bothered to verify. They only read the bible in church. And they certainly didn't seem to practice what they preached. That wasn't going to be good enough for me. I wanted to know everything I could find about my God. I was raised in a Christian home. I was one of those kids that went to vacation bible school, summer church camp, young christian clubs, all that good stuff. It was more serious to me than school, or play, or anything else. Everything else came second. Unfortunately for that young man who was so happy in his delusion...

Sounds to me as if you might have even prayed to "Truly Know God" a few times. What if your seperation from your home church/denomination was an answer to that prayer?

Do you remember the parable of the wise and foolish builders? Two men build two identical houses one on rock the other on sand the rains come the house on the sand is destroyed while the house on the rock survives.

The houses are our 'faiths'/specific religious belief in God. Our religions our ways of worship. What if your prayer asked God to take away your house built on the sand, so you had oppertunity to rebuild on the rock?

What do you think that would look like, how would God manifest this request? This website over He does this by up rooting your understanding of church and religion. So what is the difference between you and someone who rebuilds their house on the rock? I found that it is typically the 'proud heart' that says out of 30K expressions of Christianity that their particular expression of Christianity is the Only and correct one. So therefore when it is proven wrong, there can't be a God. Because they knew if there was a God He would fully back their version of Christianity... I have found This is what makes the foolish builder foolish. Not that he just built on sand but because he believes there is no place else to build a 'house.'

his hunger for knowledge is what eventually pulled him out and woke him up to reality. And I think you'll find that's the key to destroying faith... knowledge.

How can you not see what you have been describing as knoweledge is not infact knoweledge? Everything you have brough up is based on conjecture and speculation. You are using the very same methods you believe I have defaulted to in my faith.

I mean that's what God was trying to deny us from the beginning wasn't it?

Why because 'knoweledge' is one of the english words we use to describe the forbidded tree in the garden?

The word in Hebrew is דַּעַת da`ath In the context of the story it could be translated into perception of Good and Evil. Eitherway the knoweledge or perception of good and Evil was never denied otherwise the tree would not have been placed with in reach.

He offered us blissful ignorance if we only avoid knowledge. Seems there is a poetic truth in that archaic story. But not the one the church would have everyone believe.

We being finite will always be in some state of 'blissful ignorance.'

God doesn't allow Children to suffer.

Of course he does. Walk into any cancer ward at a children's hospital.

So it is your belief God gave these kids cancer? Do you have proof? or is this just what you decided to do with your 'faith' once God tore down the 'house you built on the sand.'

Your god could take away their sickness with a snap of his fingers.

He could if we lived in His kingdom, but we don't do we. If we did it would be pointless to pray "Your kingdom come Your will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven."

This was our realm our world we are/were the masters of it. However we promptly handed it over to satan. As a result he gets to decide who gets cancer and how/if they suffer.

He has the power... yet he does nothing.

Not true He is there to receive us after this life is over if we choose to accept him.

That isn't simply a different kind of moral... that's just evil. Did god not provide food for the multitudes? Did Jesus not wield the power of his father to raise Lazarus? The bible seems to paint a picture of a god that can and in fact does step in to aid those who suffer.

Now ask yourself what was the purpose of that? It was to establish the deity of Christ. The primary reason for the miricals was not to help the person, because in the end no matter what healing they received they all still died. What Christ did was temporary inorder to establish the religion that will provide the eternal care of all who believe.

How many of those sick and dying children in those cancer beds you think are praying to your God? How many of them you think he's gonna let wither and die in terrible pain and suffering?

We all die, most in pain and in suffering. I fail to see the sin in it. The only people who see the sin are those who worship and up hold life above all else. To people like that there is no greater sin.

Seems your God deserves a mill stone slung around his neck and to be cast into the sea.

...Or what exactly? Giving us complete control over this world and all that was in it?
Or maybe when we handed it over to satan to rule on our behalf?

How is it God's responsiablity to bail us our of our own bad desisions?

LOL, so man get's the blame for the inequities of God. Such a simple minded reply.

The questions dictate the depth of the 'reply.' The answer to 1+1 will always equal 2.

Why is it that we seem to keep messing up this perfect being's plans.

Greed, Pride and a general sense of entitlement.

Seems he's a terrible planner.

The goal was not to provide for everyone. The Goal in his plan was to make it possiable for us to provide for everyone. so when D-bags point to hunger in the world and ask why, the answer they are looking for can be found in the mirror everymorning.

He's had to reboot his plan for us here THREE times! The Garden didn't work out like he planned.

What makes you think that? If God did not want us to have the ablity to choose evil He would have never planted the tree.

The Garden aftermath didn't work out like he wanted so he brings the flood.

What was the purpose of the flood? To kill of an evil this world has not seen since.

And then we still couldn't get our act together so he had to impregnate a child with his son who is himself so that he could allow himself to die as payment for the sin of man.

With this i am at a complete loss. how do you see this as a reboot? In your 15 years of study have you never run across Isaah 53? or any of the passages where Christ tell of his comming sacrifice as being apart of the plan from the beginning?

Because Greed has so filled the Hearts of people like you (who would post a picture like this and question God all the while has a month's worth of food in their house) You see you excess as an entitlement, rather than a call to share. To the point where you demand God give everyone the same excess you enjoy. All the while if you and everyone like you were to simply take less and give more, Pictures like this would not exist.

Oooo such venom spewing from you.

You have confused an observation with venom. I have work alot feeding the hungry and homless. i have worked with Christians and people outside of the church as well. there are few who have given themselves completely over to this endevor that see this problem differently. Our waisted food would feed the world

I must have stepped on a nerve. I'm just going to ignore this post.

Your response says otherwise. This is how you ignore a post you have deemed to be without merrit or meaning:

You know nothing about me that I haven't told you. It's obvious you're simply coming unglued and spraying that good old hatred I've come to expect from followers of Christ when you tug at their security blanket. He'd be ashamed of your example.

We have to take care of ourselves because your God isn't doing squat. You're so blind that you blame your god's inaction... on man. Is your God so weak that we are holding him back. Unlimited cosmic power but we little ants are messing up his grand scheme? Do you not see how absurd your ideals are? Are WE the rock so big God cannot move us? By the way... this is another example of the No True Scotsman. You know I am not X because X would never do Y.

Do you not see in this statement that you don't even understand the basics of Christianity? what this world is to us, what this world is to God? Why there is a disconnect between us and God, Or even who God is???

Yet because you are so foolish proud because you earnestly wanted to know God, you assumed your 15 years of effort has given you an accurate picture, even though when the winds and rains came what you had been building for 15 years was completely washed away, leaving you with a faith in your smarter peers (who also were so foolish as to get thier homes washed away) and what they believe about God.

I have answer your questions all of them over and over for the last 6 years. It the same questions and observations over and over and over. The only thing that changes is the avatar and screen name used.

This question:

Are WE the rock so big God cannot move us? By the way...

Or rather it in it's orginal form places you in the oldest and most sterotypical core atheism catagory. People here seldom if ever look beyong their sunday school understanding of God and the websites/friends that orginaly turn them from God.

The orginal question asks Can God make a rock so big He can not move it. This paradox has God inviolation of what has been ascribed to an Omni-max God.

Now to me the question seem foolishly simple to answer using very simply logic, and a concordance.

In order for this paradox (or any paradox like this) to work God must make an omni-max claim or God must be described as an Omni max in the bible.

In 15 years of (how did you put it?) collage level bible study did you never once observe God never makes an omni max claim, or is it ever ascribed to Him by anyone else IN The BIBLE?

This is what is known as a extra biblical doctrine. Meaning we in our arrogance and pride in one religious expression of Christianity or another have ascribed an attribute to God that God does not claim for himself in the bible. (There are many, another Good example is that we are all children of God, yet another is that we all live under God authority and protection, meaning He cares for all of His followers and lets nothing bad happen to them) Where people get this stuff? They don't read their bibles. appearently they are too busy looking verify where and when the bible was written, and by whom rather than looking at the actual content.

If they did they would see God claims to be the Alpha and Omega the beginning and end to all things. Meaning God is not bound to our understanding of what an omni max God should do. It means God is whomever and what ever He wants to be when He wants to be it without having to get permission.

That means He can create a rock so big He could not move it, or He couldn't. Eitherway an alpha and Omega has the power and authority to do so. It also Means He could create a realm and hand it completely over to humanity and allow them to do with it as they wanted, leaving us to also to contend with the complete consenquences of our actions. -Or He could interveen from time to time. again as an alpha and Omega He can do as He sees fit. Which again breaks every single Omni-max paradox ever conceived. Why? Because God can't be put in a box and be expected to behave according to our understandings or definations of What a 'God' should be.

We both know what it is. I believe it's up to you to demonstrate how it doesn't apply here.

I honestly believe we don't both understand that is why I asked you to define it.
If you do understand then I will take your defination and show you how you have miss applied it to your comments.

No, because you take the absurd for granted. You defend the flaws and holes in your argument with the assumption that your myth must be held as true before moving forward.

That's the problem with new members here. you all asume I believe in the version of God you all have found to be false. As you can see My God the God of the bible is very different that what you have been describing. Your version of God seems to be loosly based on catholism, which is steeped in religion and traditions of the church. Not the bible. Again I worship the God of the bible, not some religious manifestation loosly based on the bible.

How tall is he?

In a dream I was Judged by Christ. I'm 5'9 and initially looked down into His eyes, at the end I was down looking up.

What's he smell like?

Sunflowers.

What color are his eyes?

They were pearcing.. I want to say blue, but it was hard to see Him. Because when I looked into his eyes i saw the Love that was offered, and all that could have been in the breifest of moments, then I saw all my own sin, my own short commings and the true intentions of my heart. At that point I hit the ground and began to beg for another chance. Then the truth hit me, It would not matter how many chances I got or how long I got to prove myself I am who I was judged to be. again with all of that happening it wasn't possiable to see what was infront of me.

You claim to have found him... please... tell us what he's like.

The holy Spirit is much different. This is the aspect of God we have been offered in this life. He is manifest thru the Fruit of the Spirit and in Spiritual gifts. I would explain but after such indepth knoweledge of the bible i am sure you know what i am talking about or at least how to find it.

I see, so we are fools for expecting the inerrant word of God to be... inerrant?

Maybe you are fools for assuming the bible claims to be inerrant. Again this is another catholic doctrine that does not have a scriptural basis. lest you can provide book chapter and verse. In 15 years have you ever come across such a verse? no?? then can it be said you are foolish for assuming such a thing?

I followed the map and found lies, myths, and legends.

Am I just to take what you have said on faith?

I'm sure... your delusion promises that you're protected from them. That's its hold on you. It controls you by fear. It's a security blanket for adults.

no, I know i will die, and I know that for the role i have taken i will be judge and scrutinized far more harshly than any of you (except for Xpastor, if what he says is true He and I are in the same boat) To which if the dream i had was any indication I am still Hell bound.
even so, i have no fear. Heaven or hell has no bite. I am simply choosing to be faithful to what i have been given, and damn the consenquences.

Once again, only in your delusion. There is no such place and accountability to who? Your invented titan? Surely not.

Surly you have not put fourth such a great effort to justify yourself to me, a stranger you would not know from the next person... I have found that You and people like you tend to use me and people like me as practice for your own justifications to said 'titan.'

Now which is it that you believe in? Hell... or the second death. You can't believe in both.

Why not (book chapter and verse please.)
None of your catholic religious crap.

Again you're kind of pissing in your own yard with this logic. You're admitting that religion controls you by fear here. Submit or burn. And death is a very natural fear in all living things.

I did not say religions don't rule by fear, the closer one gets to the R/C church the more fear is used.

In the beginning of faith Fear is understandable, for the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. However after one mature spiritually/In the Spirit fear is replace by Love.

No it isn't. You cannot separate Jesus from the tyrant Yahweh.

Again you do not even seem to have the most basic understanding of Christianity, so then how can you claim mastery of it?

The reason Christ died on a cross is take the full brunt of God's wrath set against us, leaving only love. It is because of Jesus we can Love and not fear God.

Really? Where are they?

At the edge of creation.

What did they look like?

A black pit.

Can you show them to me?

I bet you will see them sooner or later.

Are you claiming to have had visions? Do we need to call a mental health professional?

I call them dreams, the difference is accuracy. i have no way of verifying them so in this life they remain dreams.

Because they creators see man as sick and twisted. God must be above that. He must be more pure and good than we are. And even our best moral ideals must pale in comparison to his.

why? Our 'morality' is ever changing and without being tied to absolutes like God is, we will eventually be outside of God's morality. That is the very nature of self righteousness or do you not understand this principle either?

We aren't talking about which type of death. We are talking about whether man wins God acknowledges works or just faith.

James clarifies that empty faith is not what is being asked of us. people did not understand what the word meant/means given the context God was looking for. Faith goes beyond just simple acknoweledgement or rather people like you want to confuse faith and general acknoweledgement. james pointed out that the brand of Faith god is looking for is accompanied by works. that said it is not the works God holds value on, but the Faith that inspired said works.