RE: Do you think jesus christ existed
December 31, 2013 at 1:19 pm
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2013 at 1:51 pm by là bạn điên.)
(December 31, 2013 at 10:25 am)Aractus Wrote: The basic facts accepted by the overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars/theologians/historians that I can think of off the top of my head are:|
I take issue with anyone who refers to themselves as a 'scholar' they are serious published academics or they aren't. Personally I am inclined to think that there was someone of about that time who was at the very least the model for the biblical Jesus and may well have done some of the things reported of him.There is no evidence for anything else
Quote:1. Jesus was baptized by John,
2. Jesus called disciples,
3. Jesus died by crucifixion.
Please name the non christian historians who accept as fact these things.
Quote:There are others too. Disputing these facts which are so overwhelming supported requires you to produce evidence to support the theory, and barely anyone produces any evidence other than "the Gospels don't count as evidence" etc, which is rubbish.
Please list the evidence. Christian use Josephus when we know for certain at least some of it is faked and the gospels are incredibly weak evidence (in historical terms it would be wrong to state that they are not evidence at all, the just contain no reliability).
Quote: Even bad quality evidence is still evidence, and even scholars who think the Gospels are bad quality evidence still believe that those three facts can be reliably derived from them.
There is that 'scholar' word again. I started out as a historian and I have never heard that term used by historians and I have a post graduate degree (masters) in history. for something to be considered a 'fact' then it must be beyond reasonable doubt. there is definitely a reasonable doubt conceding everything about Jesus including his existence.
Quote:5. We have more evidence for Jesus than we have for almost anybody from his time period.This is complete and utter nonsense I could within a day or two give you a list of 500 people who ,beyond any reasonable doubt' existed in the first half of the First century CE. Just off the top of my head without any checking at all
There is the 6 emporers of the Caeser/Augustus dynasty for a start then add Galba ,Otho,Vittellius and Vespasian
Then lets have Aulus Plautius, Prasutagus, Boudicca, Varus, Arminius, Dubnovellaunus ,Tincomarus,Strabo,Titus fabius, Gnaius Hosidius,Gnaeus Sentius ,Togodumnus, Caractacus,Publius Osturios, Cartamandua Quintus Petillius (Agricola) Aggripina
Even in Palestine at the time there are the Obvious Herod Archelaus, Herod Philip and Herod Antipas . Then there are the Roman Governors/Prefects Valerius Gratus, Marcellus and obviously Pontius Pilatus and Lucius Vittelius
That's about 40 people off the top of my head for whom ether is no reasonable doubt whatsoever that they existed