(January 1, 2014 at 2:59 pm)xpastor Wrote: OK, GC, I will reply to one piece of idiocy in your attempt at answering me.
GodsChild Wrote:Your saying that the Jews were developing an end times apocalyptic prophecy from Christian writings, now that's weird.If your first sentence means anything, you're accusing me of saying that the Jews read about John the Baptist in the gospels!!! No, John lived decades before the gospels were written. I am saying that he was one of many apocalyptic preachers running around the countryside in Palestine back then.
The quote you've given comes from chapter 3 verse 9 of Luke, why didn't you mention that, you may deceive some but not all. Chapter 3: 1-22 are about John baptizing and preparing the way for Christ and verse 9 is about those who do not repent, has nothing absolutely nothing to do with end time prophecy. Taking verses out of context is deceitful, don't you know that?
Here's what they actually say, Luke 3:7-9 He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8) Bear fruits in keep with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 9) Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
Does this sound like or event hint at an end time prophecy, no and you are only being deceitful by using part of the verses.
Every time you accuse me of making up stuff, you show your colossal ignorance of NT scholarship. It has been common knowledge for a century or more that the Jews in the decades before and after Jesus had apocalyptic ideas, which means that the end of the world was coming soon with God's judgment on evildoers. Josephus in his history of the Jews mentions a couple of apocalyptic would-be messiahs. The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls first found in 1946 contain the writings of an apocalyptic group known as the Essenes, sometimes called the Qumran community. For over half a century scholars have suggested that John the Baptist and Jesus were influenced by this community. And yes, "the wrath to come ... the axe is laid to the root of the trees ... is cut down and thrown into the fire" are all expressions typical of apocalyptic prophecy. I don't think you know what the word means.
I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but it gets tedious to correct people who know nothing whatsoever about the subject. Do some reading about the bible outside the tracts circulating in your church, and then come back.
The verses you used are not apocalyptic, they are about repentance and coming to the Christ. The wording may resemble apocalyptic but it doesn't mean that's what it is. John the Baptist never preached about the apocalypse, Christ however did but it was a minor part of His teaching.
Is that how you taught in your church, through tracts, we do research.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.