See? You can't even decide on what you want. First you say "without [the ressurection] [Jesus] is just [an ordinary historical person]" next you say "But without that jesus and christianity is a fraud" - grow up.
You don't get to set impossible conditions and then contradict yourself within your own post on whether or not you think Jesus existed.
IF the resurrection never happened, Zen, that doesn't mean that Jesus didn't exist.
Now I've mentioned again and again what practically all New Testament scholars agree upon, one being that Jesus called disciples - look back through every time I've said this and I will have always used that wording and never said "Jesus called 12 disciples" because, although I certainly believe he did and so does every Christian, it's not accepted by sceptical scholars, although they do believe that he did (at the very least) call disciples.
You don't get to set impossible conditions and then contradict yourself within your own post on whether or not you think Jesus existed.
IF the resurrection never happened, Zen, that doesn't mean that Jesus didn't exist.
Now I've mentioned again and again what practically all New Testament scholars agree upon, one being that Jesus called disciples - look back through every time I've said this and I will have always used that wording and never said "Jesus called 12 disciples" because, although I certainly believe he did and so does every Christian, it's not accepted by sceptical scholars, although they do believe that he did (at the very least) call disciples.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
