(January 21, 2014 at 2:48 am)Esquilax Wrote: I submit to you that hell, an infinite punishment, has no corresponding finite crime through which it could be deserved; there is literally no crime I could commit that would cause me to deserve to suffer eternally, least of all the crimes I'm actually being "convicted" of here, which include being born human chronologically after Adam, and not believing in a deity for which there is no evidence. Do any of those things seem like sufficient reason to light me on fire? Would you feel comfortable doing that to me for those things?“no corresponding finite crime through which it could be deserved”. That is your personal view and having a very lax attitude towards holiness and also a very limited appreciation of the extreme nature of sin. Our standards of “holiness” is really kindergarten stuff.
“Believing in a diety for which there is no evidence” You are not expressing a view consistent throughout even atheism about the existence of a “deity” or “supernatural being”. Our friend Richard Dawkins suggests little green men that seeded life, accepting that some higher intelligence (forbid it may be God) was behind this extremely complex universe.
Will I light you up? Well, let us put it into perspective. Millions of unborn babies are killed annually without them having a say or any choice in the matter. You have a choice my friend. At present you choose to be “lighted”, although I doubt whether any unborn would voluntarily choose to be killed. Would you have ?
Quote:If someone has been in a car accident and, in their panic, they begin to flail around and prevent the medics from doing their job, they restrain the patient in order to save his life.The plain and simple truth is that you are confronted with God and you can reject or accept Him. As simple as that. That is the choice before you. At present you reject Him.
You are offered a gift that you do not by your own merit deserve. This unmerited gift will protect you from harm’s way. You ignore it and harm comes to you. Now you blame the person offering you the gift for not “forcing” you to accept it? Yet on the other hand you do not wish to be a “puppet”? It is illogical. Or would you not mind being a “puppet?
It is so funny. Christians are accused of “wanting to force their views on others”, yet at the same time you want them to. Can you see the lack of logic? You really want Christ to “force you”?
Quote:Because I am rationally incapable of accepting claims for which there are no evidence simply because a figure contained within those claims threatens me while smiling beneficently.You are wrong. There is sufficient evidence for a rational man – as proven by a great number of scientists being believers. I would suggest that not believing (on an intellectual level) is not rational. Do some objective research on any field you wish where the Bible can be objectively tested. The easiest I suppose is history and archaeology. There is not one piece of conclusive evidence that the Bible facts are false. Questions yes, but no conclusive proof – not even one – where the Bible has stated something as fact. Test it. Quite a few have been “false alarms" – such as the claim that Moses could not have written the Pentateuch – later proven false. No mass exodus? Recent satellite infrared technology suggests otherwise.
You warn your child that touching a live electric wire is threatening? You can clearly see your bias? Will you remove the child? You want God to forcefully convert you?
Quote:There's no logic in accepting Jesus, and all the arguments you bring up for such a thing are fallacious; it is only because you've already chosen what you want to believe, that you don't see that. Furthermore, don't presume to tell me the reasons I've come to the decisions I have.Sorry if I sounded presumptuous. It was not my intention.
True, Accepting Jesus is not logical. If it is purely based on logic, it would be worthless. It is a spiritual matter, through the work of the Holy Spirit. You can believe the whole Bible from beginning to end, accept every fact as the truth and yet be unconverted. It was John Wesley that wrote "I went to America to convert the Indians, but, oh, who will convert me?"
Jesus said to Nicodemus “ Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Joh 3:3
Quote:Don't preach, Mister Passive Aggressive.Yet you want me to? See analogy of paramedic.
Quote:Still not big on demonstrating your religious claims, are you?My claims all rest on the Bible – which I have found to be truthful and comforting – as opposed to threatening. If there is anything in there that you wish to dispute, I will be happy to answer. Just a suggestion – why not look at the basis for right and wrong – which you seem to use for your arguments. What is your basis for suggesting something is right or wrong?
