RE: CHISTIANS PLEASE EXPLAIN
January 31, 2014 at 9:07 am
(This post was last modified: January 31, 2014 at 9:09 am by The Reality Salesman01.)
(January 31, 2014 at 6:16 am)Carnavon Wrote: 1) The truth of some of the facts have no bearing on other claimed facts.So, you're saying that much in the way that I believe that Socrates was actually a man that said and did the things he did, so too do you believe the very same of Jesus. Neither of us can really prove it, but none the less, we transfer accountability to people that are more qualified than us to determine that. Right?
I have indicated in a previous post that credibility of that which can be verified, contributes towards subsequent belief in that which cannot be verified. We all know people who are habitual liars and those we can trust on their word. Based on this, and the truthfulness and accuracy of for instance Luke’s rendering in the Bible (confirmed by reputable non-Christian scholars), it is at least reasonable to accept all that has been recorded. This would the support the notion that it is reasonable to expect that what Jesus was reported as having done, is in fact true.
Extra –biblical evidence of course exists that would support the argument that Jesus in fact did what is reported in the Bible. He was claimed to be a “worker of miracles “. In Rabbinic tradition ( not really Jesus’ fan club) he was apparently accused of sorcery. There are other extra biblical references to Jesus as 'one who did surprising (or unexpected) deeds. Celsus portrays Him as practicing Egyptian magic.
(January 31, 2014 at 6:16 am)Carnavon Wrote: However the miracle of real importance (without which the Christian faith is worthless) is the resurrection of Jesus.Yes, this one seems to be of grave importance (no pun intended )
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Very much like Socrates, Jesus stuck to his guns and went willingly to death for what was important to him. What happens later is something nobody can agree on today. Did he raise from the dead? If not for this, then I must agree, it is true that your entire faith is most certainly bunk. So let us focus on this then. You did such a fine job of pointing out that there is such a things as reliable second hand knowledge. History books are filled with it. My question to you is simple: Does it take faith to believe that Jesus rose from the dead, or is there evidence for Jesus' resurrection? And is this feat an empirical fact from which faith can then reliably follow? It's a question about horses and carts. I'm trying to figure out which order you've placed them in.
(January 31, 2014 at 6:16 am)Carnavon Wrote: There is sufficient proof for the existence of God – not only in the physical world (science), but also on a spiritual level where the spiritual rebirth that takes place have a marked effect on the regenerated soul.I'm sorry, was this a typo? I almost think that I accidentally mis-edited your quote, forgive me if I did. But, do you mean to say that there is sufficient proof for God and this proof is non-physical? Can you share proof of something non-physical that exists? Can you share proof of a spirit, or a regenerated soul? Are you saying that there is physical proof for a non-physical God, and this proof lies in the presupposed existence of that which is non-physical? I am terribly confused. Perhaps you could share some of this sufficient physical and non-physical proof. If it is "sufficient" as you say, then I will gladly accept it. I just hope it's not something that's slipped by you by means of confirmation bias. If that's the case, it will be very hard to hope for any sort of productive exchange of ideas.