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What do believers say when you ask or tell them..
#71
RE: What do believers say when you ask or tell them..
(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: You said Christianity is based on belief and grace rather than actions in life.

No, I did not. I said nothing about what Christianity is based on. I said salvation is based on God's grace, not human works.

(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: The only characteristic that God would consider is your belief in him. Would that be a fair assessment?

No, that would be a wildly inaccurate statement, one that completely ignores what I had actually said. Belief in God does not save anyone. I'm not saved because I believe, but because of what Christ did. It's not as if man exists in some state of spiritual neutrality from which either 'belief' or 'non-belief' finally determines his standing before God, whether justified or condemned. On the Christian view, all mankind exists in a state of condemnation already on account of sin. We all come from the same pool of death and darkness, of sin and moral ruin—and through unbelief, itself a sin, man remains there. We exist under judgment for death; only in Christ is there judgment for life. We exist under God's wrath; only in Christ is that wrath removed. We exist in condemnation; only in Christ are we justified. Salvation is through Christ, not belief, who died for the sins of all who repent and believe.

"The doctrines of grace are the biblical teachings that define the ends and means of God's perfect work of redemption. They tell us that God is the one who saves, for his own glory, and freely. And they tell us that he does so only through Christ, only on the basis of his grace, only with the perfection that marks everything the Father, Son, and Spirit do. The doctrines of grace separate the Christian faith from the works-based religions of men. They direct us away from ourselves and solely to God's grace and mercy. They destroy pride, instil humility, and exalt God." (James R. White)

(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: [Re: Quranic proof-texting]

You are not a Muslim and neither am I, so I'm not interested in having a Quran study. I know from having studied Islam, through its texts and imams, how the pious Ahl al-Kitab will fare before Allah, why the Quran says what it does about the Trinity, what unbelievers and rejecters are considered to be, and pretty much zero confidence in the fidelity of your gunshot proof-texting. This is a thoroughly pointless exercise. Let's confront the beliefs you and I do have, not ones we don't.

(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: Ultimately, no one's life matters.

On your view, sure. And if your view turns out to be right and Christianity wrong, that will not matter; in the grave I decompose none the wiser. Ergo, my answer holds.

(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: It's also a good thing that there is no evidence to support the claim that God, much less Christian God, exists.

Will you now support that claim? Or are you content being guilty of the very thing you accuse theists of?

(March 14, 2010 at 4:52 pm)tavarish Wrote: You were making the point that the universe somehow had a beginning by citing the BGV paper that's so frequently used by William Lane Craig. Perhaps I was reading too far into your posts, but what exactly were you trying to say with that statement?

Look again at what I said on that point, this time without reading a bunch of stuff into it. It states exactly what I was saying. (I tend to say exactly what I mean, and mean exactly what I say.)
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Messages In This Thread
RE: What do believers say when you ask or tell them.. - by Ryft - March 14, 2010 at 6:14 pm

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