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Who do you really trust?
#10
RE: Who do you really trust?
(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: Ok.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

Then it is immediately followed by "those who believe".

So the qualities of being "saved", "drive out demons", "speak in new tongues", etc. are all traits of those who "believe and is baptized".

More specifically whoever believes and is baptized.

"In verse 16 the word "believes" is an aorist participle referring to one who has believed at some time in the past. Also baptistries, translated "is baptized," is an aorist participle but in the passive voice. This form refers to an act of outward obedience, in this case, baptism. Therefore, the translation should be, "He who believed and who was baptized shall be saved." (Key Word Study Bible KJV. AMG Publishers, pg 1259)

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: So if only the remaining disciples have these abilities, if god is only meaning to say, "the remaining disciples who believe and are baptized" will have these qualities, then they also only have the quality of being saved as well. Everyone else? Not so much. By your own admission.

That would be true if the only verses in the Bible that deal with the issue of "belief" and "being saved" was Mark 16:16-18. For example John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." Here the verb believeth is in the present participle which expresses continuous or repeated action, without implying anything about the time of the action (in this case the belief). So all who believe in the past, in the present, and in the future will be saved.

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: And if god really meant the text to say, "Hey, only you remaining disciples, not just whoever" then why does it not plainly say that?

It does. Well not exactly as you've stated.

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: Because it was mistranslated? That warrants a failure in my book. Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

That's a fallacy of composition/division. Furthermore the presumed failure would be on the translator not on the Bible. We have over 25,000 partial and complete manuscripts of the New Testament. If you have a question or concern over the proper "translation" of a given verse the resources are there for you to verify.

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: A god that uses trick questions/statements to determine whether you burn in eternal torment for eternity or paradise? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Begging the question. God does not use trick questions/statements to determine whether a person suffers hell or is justified to glory in heaven. All who believe will be saved, those that don't will be damned.

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: ‘Snake Salvation’ pastor from Kentucky dies from snake bite
The Associated Press
First Published Feb 17 2014 09:40 am • Last Updated Feb 17 2014 09:45 am

GOD: Haha! Tricked you! You should have discussed what I really meant! Sucker!

It is written, "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test." It is also written, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

(February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am)Rahul Wrote: Is god love? Does he love us? Or does he possess qualities, that if you encountered it in another human, you would immediately denounce them as being a depraved, evil, sick, SOB? Immediate reason not to trust anything the bible says.

Yes. Yes. Either-Or fallacy and begging the question. Not a logical conclusion.

If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?



Reply



Messages In This Thread
Who do you really trust? - by Gooders1002 - February 18, 2014 at 10:18 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Darkstar - February 18, 2014 at 11:23 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by orangebox21 - February 19, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Revelation777 - February 19, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Angrboda - February 19, 2014 at 12:14 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Drich - February 19, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Revelation777 - February 20, 2014 at 12:29 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Rahul - February 20, 2014 at 12:44 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by max-greece - February 20, 2014 at 2:49 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by orangebox21 - February 20, 2014 at 2:59 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by max-greece - February 20, 2014 at 4:58 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Rahul - February 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by DarkHorse - February 20, 2014 at 3:56 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Godschild - February 21, 2014 at 3:13 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Esquilax - February 21, 2014 at 3:25 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Mothonis - February 21, 2014 at 3:41 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Rahul - February 21, 2014 at 8:23 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by pocaracas - February 24, 2014 at 8:15 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Bob Kelso - February 21, 2014 at 5:54 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by KichigaiNeko - February 21, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Angrboda - February 21, 2014 at 6:37 pm
Re: RE: Who do you really trust? - by KUSA - February 21, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by orangebox21 - February 24, 2014 at 2:15 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Rahul - February 24, 2014 at 7:47 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Minimalist - February 24, 2014 at 8:16 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Crossless1 - February 24, 2014 at 9:25 pm
RE: Who do you really trust? - by Gooders1002 - February 26, 2014 at 5:04 pm

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