Evidence God Exists

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

...and you'll know why what I've outlined here points to a God.

...I think I've 'refuted' your strange argument...

You haven't refuted anything, though atheists love to use that word. Go back and look at some of my debates on this thread. You haven't said anything that hasn't been said already. I've addressed these points and more.

alright. i'll go through thread.

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Let’s talk about animal intelligence since a few of you have brought it up. Animals have different degrees of intelligence, and some are smarter than others. But none equal man’s capacity for thought.

The main goal for all other animals is to eat and sleep. Survival. That’s it, no matter how people want to sugarcoat or embellish it. Animals do not build cities. Animals do not have the skill of language. Animals cannot create or appreciate music or art. Some of you might want to point out that there are painting elephants and apes. But what needs to be understood is that in all of those cases there is human influence. When elephants paint, there are always humans guiding their movements.

Animals can learn tricks. I can even give examples of animals that respond to limited vocabularies. These are all tricks. The fact is no animal has ever initiated a work of art on its own. When someone finds a museum created by animals in the Serengeti, then come talk to me.

Man is the ruling species. No other animal has been given this privilege. I’ve heard the argument that dinosaurs “ruled the earth” millions of year ago. But when science makes this claim, it is meant merely as figurative speaking. Dinosaurs were large in size and abundant in numbers, and they were at the top of the food chain. That’s what “dinosaurs ruled the earth” means. It’s like saying that lions are the “kings of the jungle.” But there are no crowning ceremonies, are there, or real kingdoms? Dinosaurs never built cities or governments; therefore they never really ruled the earth.

I’m sure everyone here is smart enough to understand the difference between animal intelligence and human intelligence. You may find an intelligent trait in one species, and another trait in another species. But you won’t find one single species with all the intelligent traits that humans possess.

Lastly, only humans worship God. Not only does this point towards a unique brand of intelligence, but it is also significant with respect to our status as the dominant species.

We aren't any different from other animals. Ever watch Man vs. Wild? Sometimes people end up in that situation and they realize that they are just surviving as every other animal does. Does the snake care that you are human when it bites us humans? Does a mother bear care that it's chomping on your jugular as it threatened by your presence around its cubs? You're ad nauseum with the idea of treating the desire to survive as something derogatory, below humans when it's something we are doing all the time.

You weren't there when we were hunting for our food and few words were spoken. Hard times.

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I think there is thought in the concept of religion. I think there is a reason for the concept existing, but I disagree with you on the reason that the concept of religion exists.

You probably think that the concept of religion exists because religion is more than a concept, it's real. Do you think that the mere fact we created religion is evidence that there is a deity or that a religion is true? I've heard that belief before, a form of dualism.

I think religion is linked to our 'desire' to have an explanation for everything. Our desire to explain everything needed to create the ultimate, easy explanation: 'an omnipotent entity done it'!

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There you go again with that 'eat and sleep' ad nauseam. We eat and sleep. Most people are working to make just enough money to provide for their basic needs: shelter and food. Sleeping and eating is materialistic and consistent with a materialistic, empiricist, naturalist view of the universe (not to mention consistent with the laws of chemistry).

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Animals do not build cities?

Ever see a termite mound? An ant hill? A bees nest? And so what? Humans don't grow big claws,
humans don't fly, humans can't breathe underwater.

Animals have no language?

Dolphins, whales... when a dog growls or whimpers he's speaking his 'language'. Most all animals have a "verbalization" of sorts. Their "language" may not be as sophisticated as humans, but could be argued a "language" in it's own rights.

As I stated, different species of animals have individual traits of intelligence, but man has them all. The intelligent traits exhibited by animals are all geared towards survival. Man has a grasp of art, language and understanding like no other animal. Can we talk about the significance of man's superior intelligence rather than the limited intelligence of animals, please?

I don't see how another metaphysical naturalist atheist would find your argument appealing. You are basically saying that because we have time to have fun (completely ignoring that there was a time when all we did was hunt, eat and sleep [and no deity provided refrigeration]) and we are intelligent enough to have fun, there must be a deity. I would think atheists are a lot more humble about their position as a species than to say that our intelligence over every other species is evidence for an omnipotent, all knowing entity that 'loves us' enough to not provide us with refrigeration for most of existence. So yeah, refrigeration man, that's your deity.

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I see no reason to believe our intelligence more 'special' than a lion's teeth are 'special'. If you can provide sound reasons why, then there is the possibility I might believe you.

First of all, lions' sharp teeth or fangs are not unique to their species. Plenty of other species have them. Even if they were unique, sharp fangs don't give any species the ability to conquer the world as humans have. Humans themselves have unique physical traits, but it is their intelligence which has allowed them to achieve dominion.

...our intelligence is demonstrably not unique. It is a fact that a fair number of other 'advanced' mammals...

Show me any 'other advanced mammal' that has invented computers.

We are more adept with our intelligence than other animals on Earth... in the way a lion is more adept with its jaws than we are with ours. But that doesn't make us unique nor special.

What humans can achieve with their intelligence is far greater than what lions can achieve with their jaws. There's no comparison.

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While we do hold a certain level of dominance on land, our intelligence is a product of our evolution into a changing environment. Our intelligence is no less special than a dolphin's sonar, a bat's echo location, a dog's hearing, or a cheetah's speed. Every single animal is the world has unique traits, otherwise it quite simply wouldn't be here.

Basically what you're saying is that our intelligence is a survival tool that we developed through evolution. So now explain what the development of art, science, entertainment, etc. has to do with survival. From an evolutionary standpoint, why are those needed for the preservation of our species?

It also makes the assumption that we cannot be "overtaken" by another "intelligently special" species by process of evolution.

You've been reading too many fantasy books. See what I have to deal with here?

We're so special? Put us anywhere without electricity or tools. The vast majority would die within days...

Who used their intelligence to invent electricity and tools in the first place?

These are the types of arguments I'm subjected to here. Then people wonder why I don't 'listen' (concede).

I see. You're probably going to respond to our survival dependency on refrigeration by saying that 'we created refrigeration with our amazing intelligence that Jesus gave us.' I think think this point of view is not consistent with the existence of a loving god, but consistent with a bored, evil god that doesn't care for all the people that suffered starvation...

I don't think you're looking at the big picture with the lion example or any example on how other animals are just as much in survival as we are.

I see you don't understand how an appreciation for music or art would be a reproductive advantage. They may as well not be. If you truly knew anything about evolutionary biology, you'd know that not every trait is a product of natural selection. Not every trait is even a reproductive advantage. You keep bashing us for what 'you have to deal with' but I've sniffed out that you don't understand a major aspect of evolutionary biology as most creationists do. Appreciation for art may very well be an evolutionary byproduct analogous to male nipples. We don't need them, they aren't an advantage, but they are a byproduct of our genetics.