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First Order Predicate Logic vs The Judeo-Christian creator
#15
RE: First Order Predicate Logic vs The Judeo-Christian creator
I'm following perfectly. You just don't seem to be following my rebuttal, which is that you are assuming that existence is something that can be created, when I'm arguing that it is merely an attribute of things.

For instance, take random object X, and assume it doesn't exist. This causes a contradiction, since if X doesn't exist, how can we talk about it? It must have some form of existence for us to even call it object X, and so we say it exists as a concept.

Let's take an example again, this time using your set {no/exist}. Does the set {no/exist} exist? Well, if it doesn't, then your model falls apart, since every object must either be in the set {exists} or {no/exist}, yet {no/exist} doesn't exist. Then we can say that everything exists (which I've argued before), meaning that existence is an attribute rather than something created. Conversely, if {no/exist} does exist, then it is in the set {exist} (by your model), and so everything within the set {no/exist} does in fact exist (again, by your model).

As for your "void" argument, it has nothing to do with the model. I would argue that voids do not need dimensions (since they are "nothing" and do not have space) but there isn't any point since it doesn't have any bearing on the argument.

Another point about the creation of "existence" is that it is self-contradictory. If existence does not exist (yet), then neither do the methods by which one creates existence (since these methods cannot exist without existence). Thus if existence does not exist, it cannot possibly exist, for there is no way of bringing it into existence. Or, if you want it in a standard form:

1) Assume existence does not exist but can be created (brought into existence).
2) If existence does not exist, then the methods used to create existence do not exist either, since if they existed, existence would already exist.
3) If there are no methods that exist to create existence, existence cannot be created.
4) If existence cannot be created, it contradicts (1).
5) Therefore, either existence does not exist and can never exist, or existence itself does not need to be created.
6) Since existence exists, by (5) it does not need to be created.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: First Order Predicate Logic vs The Judeo-Christian creator - by Tiberius - April 8, 2010 at 11:58 pm

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