Objective vs Subjective Morals

[FallentoReason]

As far as I can tell, morals aren't something that are "out there" to be discovered i.e. they don't seem to be objective. And until a proof is given that they actually are, it can only mean that the theist is working from a subjective framework, just like the rest of us.

Theists aren't the only ones who are moral realists. 72% of philosophers are atheists, and 59% of philosophers are moral realists.

Then those philosophers are also begging the question.

And saying that because one goes about morality through a certain framework they choose that morality is therefore subjective is silly.

How is it silly? Until it can be shown that there are objective facts that show what right and wrong are, morality will always be an opinion based on our subjective thoughts. It's a reality that can't be escaped.

That would entail that everything else (mathematics, logic, science) are equally as subjective, as you do that in those fields too.

Maths (and logic, but maybe to a lesser degree?) is a construct that only exists in our minds. The most fundamental concepts of e.g. geometry don't exist outside of our minds; you can't find a circle in real life, or parallel lines. It is just accepted that such concepts exist, and from there, we can build upon those assumed truths. I think this is a nice analogy for morality actually, in that it's a construct that doesn't exist in reality.

As with science, we're dealing with emipirical data. Yeah, sure, it must pass through our subjective interpretation, but at the end of the day we can easily say who's right and who's wrong. For example, we could be talking about how much oxygen is required in order to combust x litres of petrol. There is a definite answer to that. Morality isn't like this e.g. is it wrong to take someone's life? It really depends, doesn't it?

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As far as I can tell, morals aren't something that are "out there" to be discovered i.e. they don't seem to be objective. And until a proof is given that they actually are, it can only mean that the theist is working from a subjective framework, just like the rest of us.

I'd like to know what the theists on here think about morality, and how they justify their moral code.

Personally I think morality is subjective. When theists speak of having an objective morality, it's only objective from a human point of view. They're generally not arguing that there's some objective code of morality which is independent of and superior to god, which is what a true objective morality would require.

If you put it that way, then I agree.

The next question then would be: why should I think your moral code to be the right one?