"That's not nothing"

[MindForgedManacle]

Interesting take.

For me its entirely the opposite. Its WCL that's full of it. Whilst he says you can't get something from nothing he claims God made the universe from nothing which is the ex-nihilo creation with an efficient cause (AKA Magic).

Oh I agree on that. I was only clarifying what Craig was trying to say. :p

One of the biggest problems of QM is that our logic fails. This doesn't mean QM is wrong merely that our logic is more dependent on conditions than might have been obvious. In a scenario where time itself may not exist our brains can't make sense of it.

This logic failure is not only true of QM. Give me the logic of time going more slowly with speed. How does time know how fast I am going?

That's not really a logic failure, so much as it is a failure of we humans to intuitively grasp it. After all, quantum systems and such still follow the "laws of logic" in a metaphysical sense, i.e even indistinct quantum systems are themselves, and hence "obey" the law of identity.

That defining nothing is proving a lot more difficult that we had imagined is hardly the fault of the physicists. Not all that long ago everyone would have agreed that nothing meant no thing. Are fields things? Is energy a thing? Are fundamental rules a thing? A vacuum used to be nothing and that contains much of the above and then some.

All of those - fields, energy, etc. - are things. Vacuums were never considered to not be a thing as far as I know, just simply a truly empty region of space.

What it appears that the physicists are really saying is that true nothing (whatever that is) cannot exist. That it therefore appears to be "unstable." That particles and sub-particles are continuously popping in and out of existence.

The last part, if true, immediately gives you something from nothing.

Yeah, that right there is the equivocation fallacy. When they say "nothing" there, they admit that they mean quantum foam, and the "fluctuations" of it which produce things. Apologists mean something entirely different.