(June 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm)mickiel Wrote:
(June 7, 2014 at 7:28 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: You have got to be fucking kidding. You are, right?
There are literally terabytes of information gleaned from genome mapping, methods of time-stamping, archeological digs, observation of short-term evolutionary response mechanisms, fossils [not quite included in terms of archeological digs; I mean this more specifically in terms of our own genetic ancestry], geological studies [Burgess Shale, anyone?], observations of cellular evolution, observations of the proof of abiogenesis...
That's not faith. That's called "accepting the facts of reality." That's called "faith has been buried under the Mt. Everest of evidence-mountains and it doesn't take 20/20 vision to see it."
You should try it! Might make the world seem a bit more interesting! Especially when you start realizing shit that will blow your mind...like how absolutely phenomenal the odds are that you, I, the world, the galaxy, everything in the universe would exist. You realize that the odds of you being alive, being who you are, where you are, what you are are? I don't think there's a name for the number for the odds. And yet, it's no grand master plan; had a single variable so much as twitched the other way, you might be someone else...or you might be not at all.
It's pure, random, chaotic chance. And when you actually genuinely see all the variables that went into, well, everything, and you then factor in all the scientific studies, theories, tests, observations, and conclusions that show what's happened, and where it began, and now are beginning to understand how and why it began...suddenly the pitiful ramblings of a bunch of unimaginative bronze-age cultists seems dull, dreary, uninspiring, and completely irrelevant.
Granted, this whole understanding also comes with the realization that none of the religions of man even touch the truth of the complexity of the universe and are insufficient to explain a god or any god, and that every single god of history has been buried under reality, and that the last one you believed in has been rendered false, too. And with that comes the realization that failing the simplest tests of evidence and observation has been a shared trait of all religions and all spiritual beliefs throughout human history. And with that tends to come the realization that after being so absolutely wrong so many times, you just have to accept that the hypothesis is simply invalid; there is no god. And death is pretty much the termination of your consciousness.
Does that instill a sense of terror and despair? Yup. It's traumatic. I can understand why there are so many who cannot face it; death is a terrifying thing, and the mere possibility that it really is the end is too terrifying for many to even begin to consider. Much easier to convince oneself "I'll go on perceiving forever!" No surprise there; perceiving and experiencing things is rather enjoyable. But if you believe it's never going to end, you take it for granted and you waste it.
But if you face it, realize it, come to terms with it, and make peace with it (and chances are rather high that you will as long as you take the first step), it stops being so scary. It does make you value your choices much more, and it does make you much more appreciative of the value of human life, though. It makes life a lot more vibrant and interesting when you realize you'd better start scrambling to experience what the world has to offer, because you've got a clock that's slowly ticking down to 0 and it's not going to stop ticking...unless science finds a way to make us never die of old age...which, well, once upon a time we once thought impossible but now there's studies underway that show it might not be quite as remote a possibility as we once thought. How ironic that it wouldn't be religion, but rather science that granted us immortality, huh?
It makes you value the lives of others more. It makes you realize that things function a lot better for everyone when we try to do good by others for no other reason than to share the wealth of experience. It makes you realize how important it is and how simply good it is to ensure the conception, vitalization, and prosperity of our children, the ones who come next, so that they might do the same, and so on, so that experience and perception can continue to be shared.
I have nothing to gain by what likely seems to be me trying to relieve you of your faith. You might think "Satan's temptations!" or something, depending on your level of fundamentalism, but you're just gonna take my words on faith here; I never felt any satanic or evil presence when I abandoned the indoctrinating influences of religion. I have never since had any urge to bring violent aggression against another human being. Looking back, actually, I'm a much more moral person than I was when I was following the bible's morality. I'm a lot more accepting, a lot less bigoted, a lot more understanding of people and events and experiences.
I am good without God. If ever I really must give a reason, it's quite simple, really; it's just a biological drive. We human beings are a very social, communal species. What's good for the group is good for the individual. Simple as that, really.
So, yes, there is a literally undeniable amount of evidence for evolution. And no, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for anything claimed in any of the religious texts throughout history.
Close one's eyes shut (ignorance) or open one's arms wide (gullibility), either way, one is a fool. But open one's eyes wide (understanding) and keep one's arms folded (skepticism), either way, one is wise.
You got to be kidding; life and consciousness and this VAST universe is " pure, random , chaotic chance?" Man, what does atheism do to the human perception , its like it wipes out whole slabs of reality! It is denying our birth right and erasing our true heritage with god; Anyone can see this thing was intended and planned and designed.
goodness.
OK, suppose what you wrote is true. Then why does it appear that it has taken billions of years to arrive at our current state of existence. Why didn't the God character just zap everything into existence, like say 6,000 years ago?