A Serious Question For Theists

[Confused Ape]

cuz Islam is more detailed and defined .. Islam has more knowledge.

cuz the Holly Quran is the only book which people claim that it is the exact words of God

People claiming the Quran is the exact words of God isn't what I regard as proof that God actually exists, though.

while sikhi books are written by their scholars.

Real Sikhism - Who is God? What does God look like?

God loves everyone. Sikhs believe there is no one superior to God. Furthermore, Sikhs believe that God created all beings, animals, birds, creatures, including humans. When the first great Guru, the founder of Sikh faith, Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave this definition to the people who believed differently in God, they were surprised and they asked him, who told you this and how did God come in existence? The great Guru explained that God Himself gave him this information. God has always been present. The concept of time is very worldly. There is no time, beginning or end when it comes to God. This is very hard to understand for us humans because we are used to the concept of begin and end with time.

This doesn't prove to me that God really did give him the information, of course.

You can read it if you want..

The nobel Quran

I got as far as 2:6 and 2:7 before hitting a brick wall.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Why should people be punished if Allah has arranged for them not to believe? I prefer the Sikh world view because they believe in a system which is fair and just for all.

cuz Quran is not only a book of instructions and guidance.. It has the knowledge of the past, present, and future.

What does it say about the present and the future?

To me I find this lecture so helping in understanding the Quran.. this man is really clever!

Although he was a previous atheist.. I personally have learned a lot from this lecture.. and even if you don't want to be a muslim I can ensure you that you will like this man and his clever ideas and way of thinking

I'm sorry but I couldn't sit through 2 1/2 hours of it. I've got arthritis in my neck so can only manage to be at the computer for around 20 minutes at a time. The sound quality wasn't good enough for me to hear what he was saying while I was lying down.

It's not only dreams.. you can't really ignore the big sensation of the existence of something "offstage" as you described it

I'm only aware of the 'offstage existence' of my unconscious mind, though. As yet, I've found no proof of anything beyond that.

I myself have experienced the existence of the "Jinn" as we call it.. spirits.

I felt him moving my legs and arms .. It was an awful experience!! I know many people would find that hard to believe.. but to me it's as clear as the water I mean I felt him really ..

Where were you when that happened? I'm interested in hearing more details of this experience if you don't mind providing them.

To me I just can't ignore this "fact", as I see it.. If you didn't experience anything like that before than its fine.. but knowing that and ignoring is lying to myself and I can't lie to myself

I believe you when you say you experienced something. I've sometimes had the feeling of a disembodied presence behind me and once saw a shadowy figure of a female form rising from a moorland pond in Wales. They were subjective experiences, though, because the people I was with didn't feel or see anything.

If you have a hard disk.. full of files and folders.. would say that the hard disk invented or created them by itself?! No of course

So where do all our thoughts come from? They can't come from God because we don't all think the same things, especially where God is concerned.

That's why I think the idea of a God was not created by the creative humans!!

I'm going to Hindu philosophy here - Brahman The Supreme Universal Lord Of All

Brahman is the indescribable, inexhaustible, omniscient, omnipresent, original, first, eternal and absolute principle who is without a beginning, without an end , who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.

He is the incomprehensible, unapproachable radiant being whom the ordinary senses and ordinary intellect cannot fathom grasp or able to describe even with partial success. He is the mysterious Being totally out of the reach of all sensory activity, rationale effort and mere intellectual, decorative and pompous endeavor.

The Upanishads describe Him as the One and indivisible, eternal universal self, who is present in all and in whom all are present.

Now to Sufism.

Only by the light of the Spiritual Path and the mystic way can the Truth be discovered. In order for one to truly witness the Perfection of the Absolute, one must see with one's inner being, which perceives the whole of Reality. This witnessing happens when one becomes perfect, losing one's (partial) existence in the Whole. If the Whole is likened to the Ocean, and the part to a drop, the sufi says that witnessing the Ocean with the eye of a drop is impossible. However, when the drop becomes one with the Ocean, it sees the Ocean with the eye of the Ocean.

My guess is that both of these quotes are talking about the 'mystics' experience' which they interpret as God. God being beyond the human intellect hasn't stopped humans from deciding that they know exactly what God wants down to fine details such as rituals we should perform and what we should wear, though.

Or they may say God is two , three, thousands.. but that doesn't mean that God is multiple !

Maybe it depends on what is meant here - Hinduism And The Belief In One God

He exists in all and all beings exist in him. There is nothing other than Him, and there is nothing that is outside of Him. He is Imperishable, unknowable, immortal, infinite, without a beginning and without an end. All the same when worshipped with intense devotion and unshakeable faith, He responds to the calls of His devotees and comes to their aid and rescue.

All the gods and goddess are His manifestations only.

Eeek! This post is getting very long so I'll have to pass on replying to some things you said.

I think its bad people only.. "personality types"

an extremist would always be an extremists .. even if he was muslim, atheist, christian, scientist.. etc

I agree with you there. I've often wondered what would happen if I could go back to the time of the Spanish Inquisition and wave a wand to turn all the inquisitors, priests and the Pope into atheists. My guess is that the inquisitors would become fanatical atheists who'd then torture believers to save them from 'the God delusion'.

Actually I'm pregnant with my third child now she will be my first.

wish me luck ..

I hope everything goes well for you.

and thank you for this great conversation.

I'm really enjoying it.