(June 30, 2014 at 10:08 am)Rhythm Wrote:(June 30, 2014 at 9:06 am)Irrational Wrote: It seems you're equating "Christ" to "God", but that's not necessarily the case, even today.Christ, in any permutation, will refer to god. Were basically discussing christology at this point. Which is a steaming turd if ever there were one....but. Jesus of nazereth was not jesus christ -even in the narrative...in any version of that narrative, until his believed resurrection, some reference to a god is absolutely required before we can call him christ. If you can explain that resurrection in terms that do not refer to god (for example) and remain consistent with the NT have at it. I can't. Doesn't mean there couldn't be a way, and I'd sure as hell like to see it if there were.
Quote:Would you consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be Christians? They believe in Christ but not as God.This is from their translation, (new world translation) of john.
Quote:No man has seen God at any time;+ the only-begotten god+ who is at the Father’s side*+ is the one who has explained Him.+To which begotten god might they be referring? Does it sound to you like the author didn't think that "christ" was a god?
Oddly enough, the charge that JWs both believe that jesus was a god and that they don't has been leveled at them by other christians...who don't think that they are christians. The truth of the matter is a bit more complicated. Feel free to wander over to their website and get the "good news in the kingdom" directly from the horses mouth on that count. Here again (in JW beliefs) we see that without invoking god - the title christ is empty.
Christ as living god was probably a poor example - as it is definitely not the entirety of what the title can, or does mean. Think of it as an example of the sorts of things christ can refer to, without having to go through the trouble of reciting the 72 names of god - etc.
JWs believe Jesus is a god but not God himself. That's what JWs have told me that in person (cousins, actually).
But you see, you are fine with calling Christian some groups seeing Christ as a god rather than God but not other groups who see Christ as just a great man worthy of following.
The problem with your challenge is it must assume the Bible is internally consistent and that the earliest Christians used to believe Jesus was God or even a god. And while many early Christians saw him as some god or angel (the Pauline Epistles, for example), others did not see him as such yet called him the Christ regardless (the Synoptic Gospels hint towards that).
