RE: Did Jesus Christ exist as a historical human or was he a theological construct?
May 20, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Perhaps you are not aware of this but there are a great many European and Israeli archaeologists and biblical scholars who regard their American colleagues as too far under the thumb of fundamentalist nutjobs. Archaeology underwent a prolonged period where preachers masquerading as archaeologists went to the mid east and pronounced every rock they found to be something that "moses" had pissed on.
When the recent Noah's Ark scam was announced it was US-based whack jobs who jumped up and down and shouted 'Hallelujah' (and they have gotten very quiet indeed in the aftermath of yet another hoax from the Ark-eologists.)
Are you perhaps suggesting that Strange, in spite of his bible-thumper education, is able to objectively discuss his own faith? Because it sure as shit is not apparent.
You know, just before christmas a find was announced which got big headlines. "Jesus' House" found in Nazareth. At least that's how xtians portrayed it. The actual announcement from the Israel Antiquities Authority was a bit more subdued. They pointed out that the find was from the Early Roman Period (which they then defined as the first AND second centuries, BC) but somehow that little explanation got edited out of the more sensationalistic reports. Well, WTF, tourism is a big industry there and separating xtians from their money is one of the few things that Jews and Arabs can agree upon.
Oddly, the political situation does explain the later growth of "Nazareth"...or whatever it was called.
As Josephus notes in The Jewish War, Book 3, Ch. 4:
The good citizens of Sepphoris, being perhaps somewhat smarter than the rebels, invited Josephus to go fuck himself and went over to the Romans. Screwed there, Josephus withdrew a couple of miles to Jotapata which was a highly defensible site, approachable only on one side because of deep ravines and Josephus had already begun building a wall to defend that side. He held out for a month and a half and then (from Chapter 7 of the above):
Archaeology confirms that the city was demolished...even if, as usual, Josephus' numbers are ludicrous. It is also true that Josephus managed to avoid the fate of his soldiers and surrendered to the Romans where he became Toady in Chief to Vespasian and later his son, Titus.
Nonetheless, there had to be survivors, escapees, or people who were simply away when the siege began. Given the destruction of their homes and the likely reluctance of nearby Sepphoris to want anything to do with former rebels the idea that they may have moved to the area now known as Nazareth and started over is not so far fetched.
If, however, they were Jews...even nominally...they would not reside on the hillsides where there were tombs. Jews would not live in a cemetery. The valley floor makes more sense. At any rate, in is in this time period that human activity seems to begin at the site.
Of course, this is a tad too late to be of any use to the gospel stories.
When the recent Noah's Ark scam was announced it was US-based whack jobs who jumped up and down and shouted 'Hallelujah' (and they have gotten very quiet indeed in the aftermath of yet another hoax from the Ark-eologists.)
Are you perhaps suggesting that Strange, in spite of his bible-thumper education, is able to objectively discuss his own faith? Because it sure as shit is not apparent.
You know, just before christmas a find was announced which got big headlines. "Jesus' House" found in Nazareth. At least that's how xtians portrayed it. The actual announcement from the Israel Antiquities Authority was a bit more subdued. They pointed out that the find was from the Early Roman Period (which they then defined as the first AND second centuries, BC) but somehow that little explanation got edited out of the more sensationalistic reports. Well, WTF, tourism is a big industry there and separating xtians from their money is one of the few things that Jews and Arabs can agree upon.
Oddly, the political situation does explain the later growth of "Nazareth"...or whatever it was called.
As Josephus notes in The Jewish War, Book 3, Ch. 4:
Quote:On this account it was that Josephus marched against the city, as hoping to take what he had lately encompassed with so strong a wall, before they revolted from the rest of the Galileans, that the Romans would have much ado to take it; by which means he proved too weak, and failed of his hopes, both as to the forcing the place, and as to his prevailing with the people of Sepphoris to deliver it up to him
The good citizens of Sepphoris, being perhaps somewhat smarter than the rebels, invited Josephus to go fuck himself and went over to the Romans. Screwed there, Josephus withdrew a couple of miles to Jotapata which was a highly defensible site, approachable only on one side because of deep ravines and Josephus had already begun building a wall to defend that side. He held out for a month and a half and then (from Chapter 7 of the above):
Quote:And on this day it was that the Romans slew all the multitude that appeared openly; but on the following days they searched the hiding-places, and fell upon those that were under ground, and in the caverns, and went thus through every age, excepting the infants and the women, and of these there were gathered together as captives twelve hundred; and as for those that were slain at the taking of the city, and in the former fights, they were numbered to be forty thousand. So Vespasian gave order that the city should be entirely demolished, and all the fortifications burnt down. And thus was Jotapata taken, in the thirteenth year of the reign of Nero, on the first day of the month Panemus [Tamuz].
Archaeology confirms that the city was demolished...even if, as usual, Josephus' numbers are ludicrous. It is also true that Josephus managed to avoid the fate of his soldiers and surrendered to the Romans where he became Toady in Chief to Vespasian and later his son, Titus.
Nonetheless, there had to be survivors, escapees, or people who were simply away when the siege began. Given the destruction of their homes and the likely reluctance of nearby Sepphoris to want anything to do with former rebels the idea that they may have moved to the area now known as Nazareth and started over is not so far fetched.
If, however, they were Jews...even nominally...they would not reside on the hillsides where there were tombs. Jews would not live in a cemetery. The valley floor makes more sense. At any rate, in is in this time period that human activity seems to begin at the site.
Of course, this is a tad too late to be of any use to the gospel stories.
