RE: Hey Gnostic Atheist - prove your point
August 24, 2014 at 10:38 pm
(This post was last modified: August 24, 2014 at 11:05 pm by answer-is-42.)
(August 17, 2014 at 2:05 pm)Eel_LahjicK Wrote: No one is proving atheism to be true on here. More correctly worded would be, no one is proving god doesn't exist. Atheism means you don't believe in god. There is no reason for me to believe, mostly due to zero evidence, so I simply don't believe. We are merely discussing why we don't believe in god. Hey You, prove to me invisible purple dragons don't exist!
Not true, there ARE people out there saying god does not exists (that is the definition of GNOSTIC atheism - look it up if you need to). If you are saying you do not have enough evidence to believe in god, but theoritically it could be true (no matter how remote - even as remote as an invisible, giant dragon chasing the earth) then you are by definition agnostic and this does not apply to you. Sorry to be pedantic, but in this case the actual definition matters becuase I have seen previous discussions degrade by getting mired in the definitions of anti-theism rather than actually responding to the question at hand. In your case, you are not addressing the question at hand. Additionally, I am NOT making a claim that god does or does not exist so challenging me is fruitless. I am trying to get a forum for those you who ARE making a claim that god does not exist to state that case.
(August 17, 2014 at 4:00 pm)Blackout Wrote: Since I sometimes feel myself slipping to gnosticism I'll answer this thread.
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I'm not good with using quotes on this forum, please refer to his original thread for his exact qoutes else this reply will be more maddeningly long then it already is.
So many things wrong with these arguements -
Again let me re-establish my belief is there is no evidence for the existence of god (angostic atheism) though at this point EVEN if a god did exist I would willingly choose not to worship them given the "evil {for lack of a better word}" I see in this world that such a deity should surely be able to rectify (a type of anti-theist).
That said, your arguements are generally invalid as a backing for GNOSTISM.
First "gnostic atheists believe there is no god because there is no evidence to prove a god exists" - NO THIS IS AGNOSTIC by definition - IF existence for god is found then such a person would then have to re-address their beliefs and there fore they did not KNOW anything (again I think you need to learn what gnostism is).
I agree with the arguement that the burden of proof is on anyone claiming knowledge (as you state for gnostic theists) but it is equally on those who are gnostic atheists - hence the thread. There may be no evidence of dragons currenlty, but maybe they did in the past and maybe someday we will find evidence of them. If you know there dragons don't exist and never have then what does that evidence then do to your claimed knowledge? Prior to 1999 we thought all dinosaurs were extinct and we KNEW there were no more dinosaurs. Then we found the coelacanths in the indian ocean ... see we didn't know as much as we thought we did.
Further, you can't see,smell, or touch a virus, yet they exist. Just because your senses cannot fathom something does not mean it is not there. Heck you cannot see UV or IR spectrums without additional equiptment, therefore did they not exist prior to us inventing the means of detecting them?
So finally to your "arguements" -- almost NONE of them even address positive assertion (no god exists) but rather try to refute other assertions (other gods don't exist). Prior to the germ theory of disease there were a great many hypothesies about the nature of disease- none of them held up to scrutiny so does that mean ALL theories on the mechanism of disease are invalid? I think that refutes just about all of your arguements. If you have more, please bring them up, I am looking for much stronger ones then you present. Again I am not making a claim that god exists - as many of your arguements seem to claim, but rather trying to assess if there are valid arguements out there for why god does NOT exist.
If you are going to take a positive position - please try to back it up.
My reason for this thread is to get people (my self included) to honestly look at their beliefs and views and see if they are being intelectually honest.
(August 17, 2014 at 2:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: First, define god, and then I'll bite.
(it would be impossible for me to argue that something doesn't exist unless I know what we're talking about)
Generally I would take the commonly accepted definition of a sentient being that created the universe and is able to effect it's current course. Whether such a being has contacted us or not is irrelevent.
Again gnostic atheism is a position that NO god exists, not just the old testament god or Thor or Shiva or {insert deity of choice} does not exist.
If you don't like that definition, please provide your own and state your case.
