Yes I pick on all religions.

[Brian37]

The argument itself still would stand though. I still would see no difference between claiming a god or the universe being a giant consciousness. I am sorry however for the confusion.

No problem. And indeed, my only point of contention in this thread is that we give the God proposition or anything else that seems intuitively strange a fair hearing. I find it to be a troubling trend amongst so-called "free thinkers" to replace insult for reasoned debate, and far worse, in their overthrow of repressive religion, to almost seem to adopt oppressive tactics of their own by marginalizing and ostracizing anyone who would even question the materialist point of view as somehow moronic or childish (although I don't extend this courtesy and exempt absurd piety for obvious human inventions--"holy books" in particular--from ridicule). The main point that I think is fair to criticize (on the materialist's position) is the sometimes dogmatic assumption that the concepts of our mind, translated from the contents of our senses, (or vice versa?) can ever hope to capture in toto the essence of reality and therefore rule out a priori any possibility of something like a hyperphysical nature having any role in either our personal lives or the existence of mind and/or matter itself. While I am (currently) a realist and a materialist, I don't think it's all that obvious what exactly matter (or mind) is.

Holy crap.....skip the labels for a second seriously. No theist vs atheist, no fundy vs atheist, no "freethinker vs humanist", no left vs right, no us vs them, ok?

When in human history have all humans always only had polite conversations and only said nice things about each other? You really think that that is possible on a planet of 7 billion? You really think you can set up a utopia where no one ever cusses or blasphemes?

Now again, that seriously is a comfort level on your part. Some people like the library and other don't mind the verbal boxing ring. Now again if you read the OP you understand the CONTEXT of my bluntness and language. That is not the same as hating in a bigoted sense at all. Just like when you have a kid or brother or sister who is saying or doing something stupid. In the case of believers it is an attack on their logic, not their right to believe nor is it an attack on them personally. It is an attack on their claim.

I really frown on projecting scripts on other as to how you think they should behave. Froodo isn't a bad guy and he would not be in this thread if he hated me that much, and he has the ability to avoid my posts too. Niether of us are unwilling participants nor are we prisoners.

On top of that, worrying about blasphemy and cussing which are not crimes is much more disturbing to me. Christians and gays and non Shiites living in Iran are oppressed, and cant even politely dissent or be open. Girls and women in the middle east and in Africa are oppressed and often murdered or rapped for "honor" punishment. The Muslims and Christians being slaughtered by Isis are oppressed. Merely saying "bullshit" is not an act of violence.

I think your concern should be physical violence and government oppression than someone being offended. Far to much of Islam worries about being offended. I really do not think the west needs to make demands on how conversations go between people. No one has the right to play morality police or thought police. The only thing civil society can do is to agree not to get violent or call for violence. Other than that your conversations are a comfort issue and a context issue.

---

to almost seem to adopt oppressive tactics of their own by marginalizing and ostracizing anyone who would even question the materialist

There is your empathy kicking in. Once again you mistake bluntness and blasphemy for oppression. "bullshit" is not oppression. "That is stupid" is not oppression. I don't know where you are getting that idea from. No one here is being forced by government to read these posts. No one is demanding the arrest of theists nor should they. Everyone here is here on their own accord.

You should be worried about men shooting girls for wanting an education. You should be worried about people who use politics to control the bodies of women. You should be worried about people who insist on replacing science with creationism. You should be worried about people who murder reporters and slam planes into buildings. You should be worried about people who deny gays rights.

Froodo is not worried about me having him arrested. He is not worried about me having him murdered. The only thing he or you can say is "I don't like your word choice". That is a matter of comfort, not oppression.

---

I don't think it's all that obvious what exactly matter (or mind) is.

Science and evolutionary biology has answered that. What we call "I" or or "mind" is simply or brains in motion. No brain no you. There is nothing separate about your thoughts or your brain. Just like there is no speed with no car.

That finite mundane reality is hard for most people to accept. It should not be however anymore than knowing a leaf falling off a tree is finite. If that leaf is not attached to the tree and living it will not function.