Christians. Could you be wrong?

[Huggy Bear]

All you have to do is say you want forgiveness. If you didn't have to do this forgiveness would be forced on tnose who don't want it.

Do you understand what unconditional means? Saying that I have to do something in order to achieve salvation is conditional.

---

Those definitions were from dictionary.com.

It's very simple, if something cannot be explained by natural laws, then it falls under the definition of supernatural.

I believe ancient peoples knew the concept of naturally occurring phenomena the Bible, for instance, never describes lightning as being supernatural, and the torah (first five books of the bible) is far older than the ancient Greek civilization. I don't believe anyone could explain how fire worked, but it wasn't considered miraculous either. Take the burning bush for example, the supernatural part was not the fire, it was the fire not burning the bush.

I don't care what the Torah calls a miracle and what it doesn't. I'm highlighting the fact that ancient societies from all stripes called just about anything unknown as a 'miracle'. Once science came to understand those phenomena, they stopped being miraculous. There's no reason to jump the shark and apply the miracle label to anything now, seeing how many times that's been proven foolish and inaccurate.

And don't bother trying to pull miracles from the Bible as if they have any merit at all in any way. They're all either demonstrably untrue or unable to be verified at best.

Oh and one last thing, the Torah is not older than ancient Greece. If anything, early ancient Greece is about 200 years older than the Torah. Get your shit straight.

My point was, the Bible makes a distinction between naturally occurring phenomena and miracles, contradicting your argument.

Also Moses is credited with the writing of the Torah, which puts it's age around 1400 bc, that's about 600 years before the Archaic period.