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A Levite and his concubine
#66
RE: A Levite and his concubine
(November 8, 2014 at 10:36 pm)Lek Wrote: You're applying your human standards to God. 1) Where did your moral standards come from. 2) Is there an ultimate moral authority that governs human beings or are your standards something you picked from your parents and society? 3) Is somebody else required to accept your moral standards? 4) Do the civil laws you referenced apply to those under those laws or everybody in the world?
There are only human standards by which to judge any moral statement; our standards are grounded in the rationalization of certain evaluations that are generally innate to our species, as they naturally proceed from experiences in a world that includes mental suffering. Yours are too. The difference is that you think appealing to a God as the source of your intuitions automatically makes them unique... absolute... objective. It doesn't. You can no further justify this than I can justify that 2+2=7 in other-worlds. So, to answer your questions that I've numerically labeled in your quote:
1) Human beings, guided by natural selection.
2) No. Your standards are yours. No one else can take credit for you.
3) No. Nobody's required to do anything.
4) They apply to the commonwealth that has adopted and demanded the enforcement of said law.
Quote:Well, he is special. If God is who the bible says he is, I can'y say that the same rules apply to God as to us.

Yet, you apply the same linguistic rules (per "human standards") when formulating even the word "God" and framing his (oops) characteristics in communication. And of course, every other feature of God can maintain its "specialness" in discussion among us poor humans, including God's "love" and (moral) "goodness"; so ask yourself, then why cannot God's special capacity to commit grave evil be appreciated too?
Quote:But see, we do believe that death is just punishment for our sins. By what moral authority do you base your opinion that this punishment is not just?
Man. Just...no.
Death, decay, the destruction of objects--a re-occurring feature of the Universe long before "sin" entered the scene, and that effects a lot more than living beings--is also creation, re-birth. There's nothing remotely connected between a person's actions towards another and the physical or biological phases of material entities. Btw, what sins have kittens committed to deserve death? Stars? Is all of the death in the Universe, prior to the arrival of Homo sapiens, punishment for our natural (and future) shortcomings too?
Quote:Okay. What do you have besides flat assertions that these acts are morally wrong--or any other acts as well?
It deprives a human being of their fundamental needs. Being human means that we can deduce certain facts about ourselves and determine what is conducive or destructive to our well-being. That is the basis for any moral judgement. If it doesn't reflect on a sentient being, it's not an ethical question. The more generic our framework, the more universal consent is found.

Saying that something is good because it's God is the same as saying something is good because it's good.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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Messages In This Thread
A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 1:37 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by SteelCurtain - November 8, 2014 at 1:53 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by FifthElement - November 8, 2014 at 2:21 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by dyresand - November 8, 2014 at 9:36 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Godschild - November 8, 2014 at 9:43 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by dyresand - November 8, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Godschild - November 8, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Jackalope - November 8, 2014 at 6:58 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Godschild - November 10, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 10, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Godschild - November 10, 2014 at 8:39 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Jackalope - November 10, 2014 at 4:14 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Godschild - November 10, 2014 at 6:17 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Jackalope - November 10, 2014 at 6:39 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Jackalope - November 8, 2014 at 2:13 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by vorlon13 - November 8, 2014 at 9:47 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 1:41 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Drich - November 9, 2014 at 5:27 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Drich - November 9, 2014 at 11:29 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Mudhammam - November 9, 2014 at 11:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by dyresand - November 10, 2014 at 12:33 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Drich - November 10, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Wyrd of Gawd - November 11, 2014 at 4:42 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 10, 2014 at 5:19 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Drich - November 10, 2014 at 7:31 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 10, 2014 at 10:03 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 10, 2014 at 12:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by genkaus - November 10, 2014 at 9:43 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 9, 2014 at 5:42 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 10, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 10, 2014 at 5:54 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by vorlon13 - November 8, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 2:00 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by vorlon13 - November 8, 2014 at 4:54 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:04 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 8, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 8, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 2:15 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:16 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 8, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 2:56 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 2:56 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 3:02 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 8, 2014 at 3:04 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Jackalope - November 8, 2014 at 3:25 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 3:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 4:21 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 8, 2014 at 4:29 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 5:04 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 9, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 2:06 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 9, 2014 at 4:53 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 10, 2014 at 7:30 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 10, 2014 at 8:20 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by rexbeccarox - November 10, 2014 at 8:24 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 10, 2014 at 10:38 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 8, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 8, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 8, 2014 at 10:36 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 9, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Mudhammam - November 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Tonus - November 10, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by robvalue - November 8, 2014 at 3:05 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by dimaniac - November 8, 2014 at 3:45 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by vorlon13 - November 8, 2014 at 6:14 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Mudhammam - November 8, 2014 at 9:17 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by SteelCurtain - November 9, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Aoi Magi - November 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 9, 2014 at 3:27 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 9, 2014 at 4:45 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 5:17 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 10, 2014 at 6:32 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 10, 2014 at 7:05 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 10, 2014 at 7:53 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 10, 2014 at 9:22 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 10, 2014 at 10:20 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 11, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 11, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 11, 2014 at 5:25 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 11, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by abaris - November 11, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Lek - November 11, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Esquilax - November 11, 2014 at 10:26 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Astrogod07 - November 10, 2014 at 8:59 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by vorlon13 - November 9, 2014 at 3:47 pm
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Mudhammam - November 10, 2014 at 9:44 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Drich - November 11, 2014 at 7:34 am
RE: A Levite and his concubine - by Mudhammam - November 11, 2014 at 9:02 pm

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