Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His

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Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty.

Exian

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#131

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty.

November 14, 2014 at 7:33 pm

(November 14, 2014 at 4:03 pm)Luckie Wrote:
(November 14, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Exian Wrote:

Thank you for the taking the time to critique this Jenny. I have more to say, but I don't want to derail this thread, so, for now, just know I appreciate the help.

Considering I had a creationist upbringing/education, my introduction to evolution has been like that of a child. I'd say what helped me to understand this subject was the concept of ring species (finches on island A can breed with B and B with C, but A and C cannot), and looking with my own eyes at the evolution of Skinks in Australia transitioning from egg birth to live birth (they can currently do both) in response to its' change in environment from temperate climate to mountain climate. I do believe Esquilax linked to the skinks in his opening statement. Lastly, transitional fossils like this one:

Livescience.com Wrote:
This ancient creature was undoubtedly a fish, possessing gills, scales and fins. However, it also had features seen in modern tetrapods — four-limbed creatures like amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals — such as a mobile neck and robust ribcage.

This extinct fish had large forefins and shoulders, elbows and partial wrists, enabling it to support itself on ground. This makes it the best-known example of an intermediate between finned animals and limbed animals marking the evolutionary leap from water to land for vertebrates, or creatures with backbones.
The scientists discovered the rear portion of Tiktaalik, which contained hips as well as partial pelvic fin material. This made a direct comparison of the front and rear appendages of the animal possible. [10 Useless Limbs (and Other Vestigial Organs)]

Unexpectedly, the researchers found Tiktaalik had big, strong pelvic bones with similarities to early tetrapods.

"I was expecting to find a diminutive hind fin and pelvis,"study lead author Neil Shubin, a paleontologist at the University of Chicago,told LiveScience. "Seeing the whopping pelvis set me back a bit — I looked at it again and again, because I was quite surprised."

The pelvic girdle of Tiktaalik was nearly identical in size to its shoulder girdle, a tetrapodlike feature that would help support strong rear appendages. It also possessed a deep ball-and-socket hip joint that connected to a highly mobile femur — analogous to a tetrapod thighbone — that could extend beneath the body.

It remains uncertain how the hind appendages of the earliest limbed vertebrates were used. "Were they used to walk, swim or both?" Shubin asked.

The scientists detailed their findings online today (Jan. 13) in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

http://m.livescience.com/42525-early-fis...-legs.html

There's lots of examples of species alive who are obvious in transition. [Image: 3502936251_e0e0af9441_z.jpg?zz=1]

Phylogenic taxonomy (DNA) has also undoubtedly connected land mammals to ocean mammals. The transitional fossils are impressive.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary...vograms_03
[Image: cladogram_of_cetacea_within_artiodactyla.png]

[Image: cladogram_of_cetacea_within_artiodactyla.png]

Thanks for the great information, Luckie. My daughter can actually grasp the idea of speciation when the animals are similar, but with enough difference to make reproduction impossible; her trouble, that I was trying to simplify, is much the same as the creationists have (her's being excusable seeing as she's nine); how mammals came from reptiles, etc.

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Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Esquilax - November 10, 2014 at 5:54 pm

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Minimalist - November 10, 2014 at 5:57 pm

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by The Valkyrie - November 10, 2014 at 5:59 pm

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Dolorian - November 10, 2014 at 10:47 pm

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by The Valkyrie - November 10, 2014 at 10:48 pm

RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Dolorian - November 10, 2014 at 10:57 pm

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RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Bad Wolf - November 10, 2014 at 6:51 pm

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RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Esquilax - November 14, 2014 at 10:37 pm

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RE: Discussion on debate between Esquilax and His_Majesty. - by Esquilax - November 15, 2014 at 12:04 am

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