Can atheists convert theists?

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

Darkness of angels -

It's funny really, here I am inviting people to try and convert me, but I know that the odds of that happening are as close to nil as you can get. I've never heard any argument that adequately addresses the reasons why I believe in god. It's always the same ones, which are not convincing at all. The undercurrent of this thread, for me, is to show that converting and deconverting is not purely a matter of words and arguments. It involves something else, and that something else applies to everyone. Not for one moment do I agree when people say or imply that logic and reason (as used by most) are the ultimate means of assessing reality.

I've posted quite a fair bit on my beliefs, but briefly, I'm a panentheist, which means that I believe that the universe is part of god, but that god extends infinitely beyond it. I don't believe that god creates anything in the sense that we think of creation, I believe that god manifests, and that everything in existence is that manifestation. I came to that conclusion myself. Also I'm not involved in any religion. Good luck.

It sounds something like a mix between the idea of a christian god and a more old-school spiritualism. Interesting.

I was sort of hoping to integrate myself into the conversation without needing to backtrack across the long thread, but I suppose with something specific to look for, it can speed things up a bit should I choose to learn more about your view of things, but given your first statement:

"I know that the odds of that happening are as close to nil as you can get."

I seriously doubt anything anyone will say will change your mind of anything. I've also scoured the entirety of this 16-page thread and found the following posts concerning your religious views:

I'm convinced that it's how I think it is because I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, and it makes sense to me, so I go with it. My belief and also the feeling that everything is god causes me to see evidence of god's existence by the fact that things exist. You could say that my premise contains the conclusion. It would also be fair to say that I'm stuck i that and I don't mind either being stuck in that or the fact that one could say that I am. My belief has created a cycle in which I see the evidence and nothing can change that, unless I one day elt differently. However, even if that happened, the "logic" (or whatever you want to call it) of my belief would remain uncontradicted (is that a word? never mind) and I'd probably g back to my belief. I've never in my life come across anything which contradicts my belief. No argument at all, ever. However I don't mind being challenged (that means finding myself questning my beliefs) and I'm open to that.

No worries. In my belief system (although you must understand that since I joined this forum I've been tempted to say that "I know" (which I'd certainly say in a casual face to face conversation), but hey, that's faith for you), there's no heaven or hell, I love everything, there's no need to even convert as I don't even care what others believe or disbelieve (although it's always interesting to discuss it), and everyone has the right to teach anything, no matter what it is or who agrees or disagrees. Do I think you're ignorant? Only in the nicest sense, merely in that I think I'm right and I think you're wrong and that you don't consider hings that I consider but that's life and it's fine, I do the same (and let's be honest, many people here think I'm ignorant. And I am). For not accepting my conclusions you're certainly not ignorant / stupid. I admire atheists, but dissapointingly, and from experience, I find a lot of atheists difficult to engage with peacefully (they get so agitated), which was a huge shock the first time I experienced it. I was expecting to be respected more, even if just for thinking for myself and not blindly following a religion. If nothing else, we have that much in common and I believe on building on positives. I admit that my views are faith based, but I also think that that's valid. I'll read your post on page 9 at some point.

Now, although you stated your intention of having anyone attempt to convince you of your incorrectness concerning your religous views (more on that later), you never actually stated those beliefs until much later in this discussion.
Prior to that, the thread seemed much more concerned with the use of english terminology in describing the beliefs you never talked about until much more recently, except, of course, that you believe in god.

People who are sensitive about something do not put themselves in a position to be damaged. That's why shy people who are afraid of rejection in high school rarely get very far with women in high school. That's why someone is afraid of having their love or trust in someone broken choose not to trust or love in anyone for the reason that they do not want to be in a position of vulnerability.
You've entered this thread to have people try to convert you, but you've already chosen not to be converted. You've stated that you're a believer but more than half of this thread is a useless back-and-forth between you and those who are essentially taking blind shots at making you reject your fait because you've not really put your faith up for discussion.

Now that I have a greater understanding of what has been going on in this thread, I would normally simply dismiss this as an effort in futility. You've deliberately set everyone up here to fail and because of that, you really aren't as open to a legitimate discussion as you appeared to be in your first post in the sense that you've remove any possibility that you could be converted.

However, I still wonder why you've chosen to surround yourself with atheists. Apparently this is due to the fact that you view us as ignorant.

So with all that mind, I do have the following questions:

What am I, as an Atheist, ignorant of?
Even if the term 'ignorant' wasn't what you intended to use to describe me, what is it that you believe you have that I lack that makes my understanding of the world lacking where you have something.
Personally, I do not view you as ignorant. That implies that you are not aware of something or knowledgable of something when I have no evidence of what you are ignorant of. I view that you are deluded, which implies that you believe in something than is different than it actually is or there is something where there is nothing.

What are you afraid of?
As I've gone on about before, you've put yourself here to see our take on the de-conversion of those of religion, spirituality, mysticism, and etc and attempt to convert you when you haven't really put yourself 'out there' to be converted. If you really, truely, had any desire to change your world-view and de-construct your system of beliefs, then you really need to be willing to have your beliefs challenged. More importantly, you need to come to terms with the fact that you may be completely wrong.
If this is merely an attempt to force atheists, who do not believe in the existace of god, to convince you that god doesn't exist, then you really need to see the problem in telling atheists to convince you that god doesn't exist when you choose not to accept lack of physical evidence as evidence that god doesn't exist.
This is why the thread has turned out the way it has. To be fair, though, I may have been the first person to bother to ask instead of jumping to conclusions, but there's fault on both sides in this case.

In any case, I believe that's all my questions for now, but before I hit the 'submit' button, there is something I do really need to point out based on some of the previous arguments of this thread.

You are a religious person. You have religious beliefs. What this means to you is that you believe in god. Nothing more. Nothing less. Being religious does not imply that you are a part of a religion. Being a part of a religion implies something completely different than what you've gone on at length about - that you share your beliefs according to a social organization of individuals with similar beliefs.
For example, everyone who believes in a god or pantheon of deities, regardless of their church affiliation, is religious by nature, but not everyone who is in a religion is necessarily religious. There are spiritual faiths that lack deities that can still be considered a religion.
That is how the term is defined, no one has implied that your views are part of an established religion in the sense that your personal beliefs are anything but personal.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies things a bit.