RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
December 9, 2014 at 3:25 am
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2014 at 3:27 am by robvalue.)
If God existed and we all knew it, then of course it would be illogical to think it didn't exist. That's hardly the case. It's a useless tautology. But if we don't know if God exists, and there's no good evidence to suggest that he does, then we are indeed logical and scientific to disbelieve the claim he does exist (I didn't say claim the opposite) even if he actually does exist. Otherwise, we'd have to believe any unfalsifiable claim to be logically true, because it might be true. If you want your logic to work that way, you've thrown away all reason.
You can't define a God into existence with wordplay, no matter how bad you want there to be one.
The thing is, of course there could be other beings. Of course they may be so awesomely powerful compared to us as to make us look like peons. Maybe they're in another universe, maybe not. Maybe one made this reality. Does that make them gods? Am I a God from an ant's perspective? If the characters in a game I'm playing somehow are represented in some meta reality, does that make me a God? What the fuck is a god? No two people seem to be able to even come up with the same definition, if either of them actually make a coherent definition at all.
It's a silly term, as are all elastic words such as spiritual, divine, higher being, soul, afterlife... Unless they have any real meaning that you can define and demonstrate to be something other than fanciful thinking, projection, seeing patterns that aren't there, assigning agency or interpreting emotions, they are pretty useless except in poetry and such. Woo is not scientific. And if it's not scientific, it's instinguishable from making stuff up.
As I said before, what you believe is of no consequence to other people, except as an interesting thing to discuss. What you can demonstrate to be true beyond reasonable doubt is what matters, to anyone interested in actual reality and truth. If you're not interested in truth and reality, that is fine, but you then have no grounds to try and convince anyone else of anything.
You can't define a God into existence with wordplay, no matter how bad you want there to be one.
The thing is, of course there could be other beings. Of course they may be so awesomely powerful compared to us as to make us look like peons. Maybe they're in another universe, maybe not. Maybe one made this reality. Does that make them gods? Am I a God from an ant's perspective? If the characters in a game I'm playing somehow are represented in some meta reality, does that make me a God? What the fuck is a god? No two people seem to be able to even come up with the same definition, if either of them actually make a coherent definition at all.
It's a silly term, as are all elastic words such as spiritual, divine, higher being, soul, afterlife... Unless they have any real meaning that you can define and demonstrate to be something other than fanciful thinking, projection, seeing patterns that aren't there, assigning agency or interpreting emotions, they are pretty useless except in poetry and such. Woo is not scientific. And if it's not scientific, it's instinguishable from making stuff up.
As I said before, what you believe is of no consequence to other people, except as an interesting thing to discuss. What you can demonstrate to be true beyond reasonable doubt is what matters, to anyone interested in actual reality and truth. If you're not interested in truth and reality, that is fine, but you then have no grounds to try and convince anyone else of anything.
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum