religious friends

[Edwardo Piet]

I can be friendly with someone and I can grow to respect them and I am certainly not saying it is impossible to become very friendly with people online but, maybe it's me, maybe it's my age & experience; in my experience online friends drift away or some such and that, to me, is not the mark of someone who cares about me ... and caring (along with liking & respecting) are what friendship is about to me.

I do like a lot of people here for example, I respect some of their views as well but do I care? A bit perhaps but I don't see how I can care all that much without developing an aspect of the relationship that isn't really available online.

Yes the internet brings all sorts together but I find people real offline, grounding ... the internet is strange (as you say we say many things here we do not in real life), we hide behind alter-ego's, shoot people down far more aggressively online than we would in real life and in that sense it's a kind of weird alternate dimension with links to the real world but a limited effect on it. I'm not sure I'm explaining that too well.

I'm not for one moment suggesting that everyone I know physically is my friend.

Well I feel there is less pressure and certainly less "peer pressure" online than offline. So that helps you be yourself more.

Yes there are some people who have alter egos - but at least with my case - it gives me the chance to express myself - and have more TIME to express myself - more fully.

As I explained in my 'massive post' - lol - I think its often much harder to have more than chit-chat offline.

I myself at least can have much much bigger conversations, and more regularly, online, than offline.

Its hard to have deeper conversations - on the whole, on average - with most people offline. And much harder to find people to have those conversations with - who are interested in having them.

Online in some ways is more anti-social than offline perhaps. As some would argue.

But I CERTAINLY do NOT think its anti-conversation. I can have much more, and longer conversations than tend to go in depth, online.

On average, on the whole.

On the case of friends drifting a part online - for a start that might partly be to do with there are an awful lot more people to meet, and friends to have - TO drift apart.

There are indeed also cases where online friends drift a part because they turn out to be different to what you thought they were or whatever.

You can blame that on having known them offline - but I certainly do not think you always can. Because I think, after all, OFFLINE, 'in real life', I think its sometimes hard getting close to people because they tend to be a lot more secretive than online - because as i have said they are more shy and nervous. And its harder to tell people stuff to their face.

So I think it can be the case that its getting to know someone that makes them drift apart. Because its quite hard to make friends once you know them.

And I think OFFLINE you can often live in a comfort zone with people for a long while without actually delving deeper into conversation. Or if you do - not deep enough - Unless of course its a really good friend who you know very well - Since as I have said - people often feel -and are - more open ONLINE - as dp, and am I, at least.

Because its not meeting someone physically that makes them my friend. Its having a friendship with them.

Er ... isn't that a bit circular?

That sentence isn't an argument in itself. And I'm just having difficulty explaining it without having to go into detail;

I am just assuming that you know what it takes to have a friendship with someone. To get to know them, have a good and friendly relatonship with them. It is, of course - not simply physically meeting them that does that. And I do not think it really adds to it other than just - being physically there with them! Because that's what it is.

Because these days after all you can also do sound and picture (webcam, etc) without meeting.

I think physically meeting someone adds to the occasion. But I'd much more likely consider someone my friend, or even best friend, if I got to know them by even just chatting with text, let alone also voice and video - than having physically meet them but not only not write or text, but not hear or see them either.

I think there are many advantages to the internet. The disadvantage is just that you can't physically meet people. And its a very big 'just'. But I think that physically meeting people takes a back seat to having conversations with them, and getting to know them.

You can of course do both OFFLINE. But I have already explained my opinion on the differences, pros and cons, differences in freedom and openness, and time to discuss, etc, etc.

And I think physically meeting someone is not the most important thing of all. I think its conversation and being open. And being less nervous and shy. And feeling like yourself and not afraid to express your opinion. Being willing to disagree and having the time to have a proper conversation. And getting to know an awful lot more people.

Is what is most important in friendship -to me. But that's just my view. And it comes from being online from since I was 13 till 18 (when I then had a 2 year break because I lost comp, etc, its a long (and frustrating) story that I'm not going to go into. At least for the now :S)

And then since about september I've been online again.

And I've been touch typing since I was 6 years old - so yes - I am total computer Geek. But I should know more about the technical stuff really lol - programming, and computer maintenance (I did a course on computer maintenance and got over 95%, it was either 96, or 98 %. But then I forgot every single thing I learnt apart from one thing. And now I've forgot what that one thing is too).

But I've just spent my years gaming on computer really LOL. And meeting people online. Now I'm doing some foruming (the vast, vast, majority here) and making and listening to music more. And then there's a bit of youtube and the like.

No I wouldn't define my friends as "best friends" ... I never really got how you can have more than one best friend (which is a bit weird coz I have 2 ... go figure) but yeah, I do define friendship as something meaningful, the others (those to whom I am a friend in the wider sense of the word and little more than acquaintances). It may seem weird to you why I take this stance but to me it makes sense ... I'm an all or nothing person, totally WYSIWYG and when someone is my friend I put my faith in them, I am utterly loyal, given the right reasons I would probably follow them through hell or high-water.

For all my years online gaming. I was all or nothing. Then (after years) I seemed to just I start considering people who I just got on with to be my friends. Because I had a great time with them. And even though I didn't know a lot of them full enough to really consider them my "friend". I kind of did anyway because they'd only ever been good to me and I got on really well with them.

So in principal some "friends" I may not actually 'know enough' and know them 'deep enough' to consider them my friends in principal. - but they certainly are in practice.

I can't know everything about someone even if they're OFFLINE. Because like I said people are often a lot more shy and keep a lot more secrets offline than online.

Online the truth often seems to come out. And sometimes its weird alter-ego bullshit. But why would people do that? Are they faking the whole thing? Or are they just honestly expressing themselves but they're not sure how to go about it? So they express it in a 'weird' way ( different to offline). That depends on the situation and the person I'm guessing.

I don't share your experience of normality ... I have some of my best conversations offline and the only reason I prefer online is because I have resources I can use and because I don't trip myself up verbally and make myself look a complete tit (yeah I know I still can). My online alter-ego is far more confident and able than my offline reality ... in reality I have to box far more carefully.

Well of course if you have a really good friend - and/or some really good friends - who has/have time to have some really good conversations with you. That would be better offline.

But as I said I mean on the whole. On average. Offline a lot of people seem to only have time for a chit chat - in my experience at least.

And those who I meet offline who do actually like a good discussion. Always seem to only have a few minutes to spare. Or an hour at most.

Since I can have a conversation with someone for hours on end online! Hours and hours. And I don't get that offline.

And I also 'meet' a lot more people online than offline. There's a lot more people TO dicuss with. And its very open to converstation.

And people seem to have a lot more time on their hands on the internet! They're not 'too busy to talk right now' a lot of the time. Or only really willing to have a bit of a chat.

And people seem to feel a lot more comfortable to disagree about things online, - and STILL continue with the conversation happily.

I think its really really boring if people can't disagree about things and still have a good conversation.

So do you mean on average, with people on whole, potential friends, like I said, - you tend to have bigger conversations with people? Or just your mutual friends?

Even really good friends OFFLINE for me - they're a lot busier offline than they are online! More time for conversations on the net for me! And a lot more people to have them with too! And more variety.
Evf