What would it take to change your mind?

[CoxRox]

Darwinian, this is how I understand this problem of killings or murders. In the OT which you quote from, God used humans to execute His judgements. (I don't know why He chose to do that??) At other times He killed people Himself via angels usually. Jesus, if He is who He claims to be, is the Creator of the universe and all life. He would view these killings as 'just' , in the same way he talks of people being destroyed at the 'End'. The contrast in how Jesus (when He was on the Earth) dealt with 'crimes' that 'deserved' the death penalty e.g the woman caught in adultery and his famous words: 'he who is without sin cast the first stone', demonstrates a desire to extend mercy and forgiveness even though you are still guilty of the said crime and this is in stark contrast to how things were done up to His establishing the New Covenant. Jesus seems to be saying: love your enemies etc, pray for those who want to hurt you etc, leave the 'judging' to me. When I return I will sort things out. The 'return' is going to involve millions of deaths in the battle of Armageddon, but these temporary deaths will be put into context, when people are resurrected to everlasting life.

The death penalty still stands. We still all die. The 'taking' of human life or DEATH seems to be the catalyst of the whole Bible. From the very beginning it is claimed that God decreed the death sentence on humans because of 'sin', so if this is true then our eventual deaths are a 'death penalty' just as if God struck us down. It's the reversal of this death process or rather the workings out of God's plan to reverse it (in which He allegedly took part in the death process), that makes up the bible. Death, killings, murder are not always going to be a reality, so the Bible claims. 'Everlasting Life' is the gift we can receive from God through Jesus, so the Bible claims.

---

From Matthew: '767. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17' -SAB

And on many other occasions I've heard Jesus does not object to any of the OT at all. He says he has come not to destroy the OT law but to fulfil it.

Also from Matthew: 'Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36' - SAB

From Luke:
And In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27 - SAB.

19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." - From Luke.

Evf, I think I've shown above, how Jesus accepted the Mosaic Covenant and all its laws and how He 'fulfilled' the Mosaic Covenant with a new covenant that involved his own shed blood and death, mercy, forgiveness and how we leave judgments to God and live our lives like Christ did, loving and forgiving others.

When Jesus mentions that families will be destroyed as a result of Him, He is talking about the unavoidable consequences of families that don't all accept Him as the saviour. Back then, the Romans killed the Christians, so can you image a family where some didn't believe and carried on living, and some did believe and so were killed? These 'divisions' are human reactions and obviously cause heartache, but it isn't something that Jesus 'wanted' to happen.

You cite a part of the parable in Luke: ''you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'' I think we need to get this into context with the rest of the parable. If we suppose that this King represents Jesus, then in a way, some of the planting and sowing, is being done by his followers. He assigns work or responsibilities to people and expects them to do what is required of them. And of course we are back to the death penalty which we know Jesus is in agreement with.