In the referenced post you write
The reason Christian’s have been sending missionaries out into the world since the apostles is to “bring the good word” and save souls. No Jesus = no salvation.
I suppose I pick on Christianity more than the other religions because I was brought up in it. If I knew more about Islam, Judaism and Hinduism I’m sure I would lambaste them more so forgive me for showing any favoritism.
I’ve been traveling a lot lately; I spent nearly a month in Indonesia (most populous Islamic country in the world, the one exception within the country is the island of Bali which is mostly Hindu) and even more recently traveled to Colombia as well. On both trips I have taken many photographs of children and that brings me to this discussion about who is saved and gets to go to Heaven and who isn’t and goes to Hell.
In the Bible it says, “the only way to the Father is through Me” (John 14:16 as I already quoted). Most everyone I talk to takes this to mean that unless you know of Jesus and have accepted Him in your mind as TOTG (The One True God) you’re SOOL (Shit Out Of Luck). I think this applies to Islam as well but they replace JC with Muhammad (as prophet only and not TSOG, The Son of God). The Jews just skip the middle-man altogether and go straight to the Source until the day they are convinced the real Messiah shows up through the proper gate this time bearing favorable rates or something like that.
Back to the children and my original thought; so JC shows up in one little town and roams around the countryside laying down the law. This law is to be applied to everyone evenly from here on out (what happened to all the humans who preceded Him is another story). There is no internet, cell phones, TV, mail, loudspeakers or the like so it takes many generations for the Word to get around and reach some of the now seven billion plus people in the world. I use the word “some” because I can assure you that most of these kids I have been photographing in far-flung islands and deep jungle don’t have a clue what the hell we’re talking about (cue the missionaries).
What happened or happens to all the people who didn’t get the memo?
Like
1) Those that came before the memo was issued
2) those that were contemporaries but didn’t live within a couple of donkey rides from the memo writer
3) those that came after but never got the memo
4) those that got the memo at the point of a sword
5) those that got a garbled memo and couldn’t make heads or tails of it
6) those that got the memo but thought it was a joke
7) those that had already received previous memos that conflict with the new one and
8) those that were/are not capable of deciphering or understanding the memo.
If I am to believe what the Bible says there are a lot of people, including these children I have been photographing, that are going to Hell. Personally, I just don’t buy it.
Whoever has been tweaking this memorandum all these years has yet to tie up all the loose ends to this fanciful tale. There are just so many holes in it that if people weren’t so superstitious or scared they would file this one away in the drama/fiction/horror heading at Barnes & Noble bookstore and give it no more weight than a second rate novel.
Show me where I claimed they were.
lek, you wrote this about scapegoating, and I quote again, “It’s not an extension of any tradition.” I gave you links showing that there was, indeed, a long tradition of the practice. This is a fact not an opinion.
As for the inference that the Jesus myth of vicarious redemption is a co-opting of an existing, ancient practice, yes that is what I think based on historical scholarly work from the likes of Dr. Richard Carrier for one.
(January 11, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Lek Wrote: No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if one seeks God with a true heart, and responds to the light God provides him, he will find him. All who are saved are saved through Jesus Christ. I could know I'm a sinner in need of God's forgiveness, and never have heard the name Jesus, but still believe in Jesus in essence.
The reason Christian’s have been sending missionaries out into the world since the apostles is to “bring the good word” and save souls. No Jesus = no salvation.
I suppose I pick on Christianity more than the other religions because I was brought up in it. If I knew more about Islam, Judaism and Hinduism I’m sure I would lambaste them more so forgive me for showing any favoritism.
I’ve been traveling a lot lately; I spent nearly a month in Indonesia (most populous Islamic country in the world, the one exception within the country is the island of Bali which is mostly Hindu) and even more recently traveled to Colombia as well. On both trips I have taken many photographs of children and that brings me to this discussion about who is saved and gets to go to Heaven and who isn’t and goes to Hell.
In the Bible it says, “the only way to the Father is through Me” (John 14:16 as I already quoted). Most everyone I talk to takes this to mean that unless you know of Jesus and have accepted Him in your mind as TOTG (The One True God) you’re SOOL (Shit Out Of Luck). I think this applies to Islam as well but they replace JC with Muhammad (as prophet only and not TSOG, The Son of God). The Jews just skip the middle-man altogether and go straight to the Source until the day they are convinced the real Messiah shows up through the proper gate this time bearing favorable rates or something like that.
Back to the children and my original thought; so JC shows up in one little town and roams around the countryside laying down the law. This law is to be applied to everyone evenly from here on out (what happened to all the humans who preceded Him is another story). There is no internet, cell phones, TV, mail, loudspeakers or the like so it takes many generations for the Word to get around and reach some of the now seven billion plus people in the world. I use the word “some” because I can assure you that most of these kids I have been photographing in far-flung islands and deep jungle don’t have a clue what the hell we’re talking about (cue the missionaries).
What happened or happens to all the people who didn’t get the memo?
Like
1) Those that came before the memo was issued
2) those that were contemporaries but didn’t live within a couple of donkey rides from the memo writer
3) those that came after but never got the memo
4) those that got the memo at the point of a sword
5) those that got a garbled memo and couldn’t make heads or tails of it
6) those that got the memo but thought it was a joke
7) those that had already received previous memos that conflict with the new one and
8) those that were/are not capable of deciphering or understanding the memo.
If I am to believe what the Bible says there are a lot of people, including these children I have been photographing, that are going to Hell. Personally, I just don’t buy it.
Whoever has been tweaking this memorandum all these years has yet to tie up all the loose ends to this fanciful tale. There are just so many holes in it that if people weren’t so superstitious or scared they would file this one away in the drama/fiction/horror heading at Barnes & Noble bookstore and give it no more weight than a second rate novel.
(January 11, 2015 at 7:04 pm)Lek Wrote: You’re right that my thoughts are not scripture and neither are yours.
Show me where I claimed they were.
Quote:You are saying that because there was an example of scapegoating in ancient Syria, that Jesus' saving act was a myth based on this example? This may be your opinion or even the opinion of some scholars, but it's not even close to justifying your conclusion. I don't doubt that other cultures had beliefs involving the same concept. That’s like saying that some society in the past had a certain custom and, because we have a similar custom today, that our custom is derived from that society.
lek, you wrote this about scapegoating, and I quote again, “It’s not an extension of any tradition.” I gave you links showing that there was, indeed, a long tradition of the practice. This is a fact not an opinion.
As for the inference that the Jesus myth of vicarious redemption is a co-opting of an existing, ancient practice, yes that is what I think based on historical scholarly work from the likes of Dr. Richard Carrier for one.
"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.” ~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
