Who Dies For A Lie?

[Davka]

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As others have pointed out extremely well (Esquilax especially), there is a difference between lying and saying something believed to be true, but ultimately false. The latter, rather than the former, is what people die for.

Let's be clear what the reaction in C1 Mediterranean countries would have been to the claims of Xianity. The Early Xians told the religious authorities (the ones with stones) that the Temple and the Priesthood were no longer important. They told the religious zealots (the ones with pointy sticks who thought Torah observance would bring God's Kingdom to reality) that it was no longer relevant.

They told the people of Israel that as far as membership of God's people was concerned, they were nothing special now, and 'pagans' and 'sinners' were just as welcome. They challenged the whole millennia old basis of national, ethnic and religious identity of C1 Israel.

They went to Greek towns, who believed that their town had gods who had the power to bless or curse the town, and said “You need to ignore them”. Along with the businesses relying on god worship. They challenged the whole Greek religious edifice, something for which the Greeks had forced Socrates himself to commit suicide.

Finally, by claiming Jesus as King (Christ) they were issuing a direct challenge to Roman rule. The Romans had a distinct way of dealing with this.

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This wasn't C21 England, where someone inventing the FSM is seen as a funny guy. C1 Israel was more like a mixture of Iran and IS. People coming up with new ways of doing religion ended up getting theological dialogue from groups of large bald headed men with baseball bats.

All very true.

And all very irrelevant.

People have died rather than recant their religious beliefs for centuries, in all cultures with all religions. Dying for what one fervently believes to be true is not limited to any one belief system. Muslim extremists are even volunteering to do it these days.

Societies in which people regularly face the choice between conversion and death tend to be pretty nasty, extreme societies. 1st century Rome was no exception. Nazi Germany, North Korea, Stalinist Russia - all are very recent examples of lots and lots of people dying for their faith, some voluntarily, others not so much.

If people only died for one religious faith, there might be some weight to the argument. But people die for all sorts of stupid shit, including fantasies made up by some crazy cult leader.

In fact, most religions weren't very popular when they were new. Lots of people died to establish new religions. Lots of people died trying to establish new religions. So all we've established is that, even in places where it's suicide to do so, there are always people willing to shout their beliefs from the rooftops. Whether those beliefs have any relation to truth is another matter entirely.