(January 28, 2015 at 2:17 am)robvalue Wrote: You are also making the assumption that the events described in the bible actually happened and the characters were real people. This is the problem with using a source to prove itself.
No, I'm using the Bible as serious historians use any historical document, taking into account all the possibilities of bias and propaganda, error, politics...
And I'm extremely happy to the point of insistence that we use all historical sources available to help us examine the N.T. hypothesis.
Quote:People can and do die while protecting a known lie. This is referenced on the video I posted in this thread.
Sometimes atheist material makes me think. But, with apologies, this video is weak*. The situations are irrelevant to the point about the disciples being made, and the presenters reformulation registers that; this is because the situations given add overwhelming motivations not applicable to the circumstances of the disciples.
The point remains this: anyone preaching the things I outlined in post #34 was going to have a needlessly painful and much shortened life.
An illustration might help. The dark humour of this passage is often missed because it is so dark. Paul has been asked to provide a C.V. by the Corinthians to make him sound like a hero. In an inversion of the cursus honorum- boasting popular in the Roman world, he comes up with this ; please read it carefully so you get the point.
Would you put up with that lot if you didn't believe it?
Although Paul is taking the p*** out of the Corinthians request, the point is clear. Christian “heroes” wear as badges their weakness, suffering and shame, and likely death.
This is what the disciples signed up to. And they knew exactly what they were getting into. And you don't do that for a lie.
*FTR, it would have been helpful to present the argument, rather than ask people to sit through a 14 minute video...
