RE: Who Dies For A Lie?
January 29, 2015 at 5:28 pm
(This post was last modified: January 29, 2015 at 5:29 pm by Vicki Q.)
(January 28, 2015 at 7:07 pm)Nope Wrote: By historical document do you mean that you hold it in the same regard as you do any other mythological story or are you saying that you believe the New Testament tales about a virgin giving birth is factual?
The bible is a historical document in the same way that The Epic of Gilgamesh(spelling?) is historical. You can gain some knowledge about the culture and myths of a group of historical people. Occasionally, the writers wove real events, places and people(like King Herod) into their stories but The entire book is simply mythological
When in discussion with those of other beliefs, I would use the Gospels in the same way that one would use Josephus or Plutarch. I would certainly allow a degree of bias (Josephus is always aware he needs to keep on the side of his Roman patrons, just as Luke is promoting Xianity to Theophilus). Letters of Paul (authentic) should be read with the usual methodology of reading historical letters. Other parts of the N.T. are used in bespoke ways.
I don't see why a God who can create the universe(s) would struggle at all with organising a virgin birth, but I don't feel the need to panic about it as a non-negotiable part of Xian belief.
The Gospel genre is 'bios plus'- given the conventions of the day, the writers are certainly trying to write proper accurate history in a Greek bios style, but with Jewish elements.
I think you're trying to push for some variant of a Mythical Jesus. I don't do discussions on that, for the same reason that Richard Dawkins (rightly) refuses to debate creationist science. There are good reasons why MJ/non-existence of apostles etc aren't discussed by serious academics.
(January 28, 2015 at 7:14 pm)Brakeman Wrote: David Koresh, John Smith,
Both men really knew that they were not demi-gods, but rather than fess up to their profitable lies, they chose death.
I'm not sure who John Smith is here, but I suspect you're not referring to Pacohontas' bae.
As to David Koresh- I wonder makes you so sure he didn't believe it all. For example, to quote from Wiki, Koresh “was convinced that his martyrdom would be in the United States. Instead of Israel, he said the prophecies of Daniel would be fulfilled in Waco and that the Mount Carmel Center was the Davidic kingdom”. And “His conversations with the negotiators were dense with biblical imagery.” It also seems quite probable that Koresh was killed rather than committed suicide.
Whereas Xianity began with a number of witnesses (not limited to the disciples, but at least all of them), who went out in 'cold blood', able to walk away at any time, but choosing not to do so.
They knew perfectly well that they were going to get regularly beaten and likely killed for their message, but they went ahead anyway. They might be wrong, but it is incredibly obvious that they put up with all this because they believed in what they had seen.
